gizze Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Ohms are a funny subject, if you were to wire the tweeters directly to the amp on one chanel and then the woofer to the amp on another channel, using the amp to set the crossover points then yeah, you would get different volumes, but when they are wires as we are doing here they become one speaker with one load. Tweeters don't take much driving, so although in theory 2ohm sounds a heavy load they don't make the amp kick out more in the same way a sub would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Ohms are a funny subject, if you were to wire the tweeters directly to the amp on one chanel and then the woofer to the amp on another channel, using the amp to set the crossover points then yeah, you would get different volumes, but when they are wires as we are doing here they become one speaker with one load. Tweeters don't take much driving, so although in theory 2ohm sounds a heavy load they don't make the amp kick out more in the same way a sub would. Amplifier sees one load yes. And in this case its tweeter+mid behind one same wire. I guess its series wiring. So amplifier sees 8ohm load, for fronts - right? (If its parallel, its 2ohm). But I think that amplifier doesn't have anything to do with the fact how much the speaker can produce sound "per watt". At least I have always thought that 2ohm speaker can produce more sound with same input wattage compared to 4ohm speaker. Correct me if I'm wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 A speaker only has a sensitivity in db per watt input. An amp may be able to adjust its output depending on the resistance of the load. Most decent amps will give a higher output when shown a load of 2ohm instead of 4ohm, a really good amp may be able to handle a load of 1ohm, but not many. Many new Class D digital amps however out put the same no matter what load, but they will only go down to 2ohm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 A speaker only has a sensitivity in db per watt input. An amp may be able to adjust its output depending on the resistance of the load. Most decent amps will give a higher output when shown a load of 2ohm instead of 4ohm, a really good amp may be able to handle a load of 1ohm, but not many. Many new Class D digital amps however out put the same no matter what load, but they will only go down to 2ohm. You must be right. I forgot that sensitivity factor. One thing I dont understand. Why does it take more from amp to drive speakers with less resistance. It just dont make sense. It would be easier to understand if it would be other way round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kildegaard Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 You must be right. I forgot that sensitivity factor.One thing I dont understand. Why does it take more from amp to drive speakers with less resistance. It just dont make sense. It would be easier to understand if it would be other way round... Made a decision bought a crossoverbox from mds http://www.mds.se/archive/productimages/big/600312.jpg That really helped. I've got the music now. everything is just right now. from strings, highhats and soft voices. I did cut the condensator premounted to the tweeter cable. it's amazing ! - now I'm c onfident on even upgrading the tweeters and mids to really good stuff as the danish Dynaudio the just sound incredible crisp. Still i thing that in my case with the standard headunits, i need some kind of equalizasion. Thinking about the audison bit one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kildegaard Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) I will comment on the L7 tweeters with the standard mids and subs tomorrow. I had L7 in my last car and thought it was good. I have heard the L7 tweeters in a 3 series, no other mods just the tweeters, and thought they sounded good, he had the treble on -2 by the way. I will put my tweeters in tomorrow with the standard stereo mids, there is a filter on the mids as there is the tweeter, which is as good as crossover. Those that have a harsh sound, what is your FM reception like?? Mine is really bad now. lot's of interference and noise My mids are actually fulltone units covering both the mid and tweeter area. woulden't that be a problem to run those with the tweeters at the same time (without a really crossoverbox) Edited October 2, 2009 by Kildegaard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Dynaudio are great, however I would look at Morel if you are going to that level, a lot warmer, even the 4" ones go down to a proper 45" allowing you to drop the subs so they just cover the 45-25hz range, and their tweeter is one of the smoothest and most detailed you will ever hear. The Audison Bit One is meant to be awesome, hearing some really good things about it, even just for its auto EQing and the Time Alignment. Time Alignment in a big car really can transform the soundstage, I had the Alpine system in my E39 and was able to get vocals right in the centre of the dash and get the beat of a house track bang in the middle of the bonnet, plus you can get the symbols etc. to come out either side of the cabin. It is very weird when you get a soundstage bigger than the cabin you are in, especially at night when it is dark. I will be interested to hear you results and thoughts if you do take it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Mine is really bad now. lot's of interference and noiseMy mids are actually fulltone units covering both the mid and tweeter area. woulden't that be a problem to run those with the tweeters at the same time (without a really crossoverbox) Class D interferes with FM, and FM must interfere with Class D, this is making me think that maybe it is distortion that is causing the harsh top end?? I would re route the wires at the back as in the diagrams I posted, when FM is back you know there is no interference, then see what the sound is like. The standard mids only go to 15khz, so the tweeters will crossover a bit, but it shouldn't be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Dynaudio sound is awesome. I have heard couple of their home-speakers. If you find some place where to get those, post a link. Maybe I should get that crossoverbox too. Where did you buy that? Been thinking to change those Audio System mids to DLS R4 ones. It seems that DLS sells those tweeters along with that R4 midranges. They would be perfect fit. But I'm not sure if they will fit inside door panel. Mounting depth is 6cm, as my current ones are 5cm. Also those mounting rings dont have holes in right places. Has someone installed these? Also curious about amp placement. Is there anyone who have placed this THA555 amp to trunk of E60? Is there some place where it could fit? I've checked behind every carpet, but it just wont fit anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I had DLS R4s in my E91, I mounted them on the outside of the door card and used the DLS Grilles. Not sure how much room you have to play with speakers on the E60, I never did anything with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I had DLS R4s in my E91, I mounted them on the outside of the door card and used the DLS Grilles. Not sure how much room you have to play with speakers on the E60, I never did anything with mine. How did it sound? Been thinking also to make more serious upgrade. Checked price of those morels and asked about dynaudio. Seems that its more like 300 euros for 2-way set, at cheapest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 They were OK, not brilliant, not bad, just OK. I had Rainbows in there before and they were better than the Rainbow, just found the top end a bit sharp at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmo Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Amatilla - I installed the THA555 in the boot of my E60 but also had difficulty locating the unit. If you have a car with a space-saver spare then you can forget anywhere under the carpet. The right hand rear panel is where the battery is located so no room there. I eventually found 2 options. The first is behind the left hand side rear boot liner. If this is the standard fitment you will need to replace with the liner with a either a CD Changer draw or oddments tray. This will give you space behind to install the amp. The second option is upside down under the rear parcel shelf which is where I installed mine. This is simple and if you install as far back as possible then you can't see it at all. This is also beneficial as the unit is in free air (the boot space) which will help keep it cool as it can get quite hot. The only down side is that when you want to adjust the settings on the amp you will need to climb into the boot with a torch and a small coin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) hazmo, I have a spare-tire big subwoofer box, so there is no space at all. how did you put it hanging in top ceiling? used some special screws? I didnt get that second place. Somewhere behing the left hand side of the boot? I have no cd-changer. BTW. I just recorded that Bink audio test cd "Log sweep" with macbooks "high-end"-internal mic . I dont know how bad that mic it actually is, but you can notice the overloud high-end here. UploadBox :: Downloading E60-spectrum-5-9-2009.mp3 Attached spectrum image (using Audacity) Edited October 5, 2009 by amattila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 As a reference for that spectrum, I recorded the same track from wifes MB B-series with Logic7 system, with Harman Kardon speakers. Currently, MB sounds better... Altought it has its bad spots. Like when listening Johnny Cash, his voice drops into that pit below 1khz. But it has a grooving sound and not too loud top-end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thinking to change this set to Morel Dotech Ovation 4" .. 325 euro per set. Morel Dotech Ovation I think that would solve all my problems with mid and high sounds.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kildegaard Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Thinking to change this set to Morel Dotech Ovation 4" .. 325 euro per set.Morel Dotech Ovation I think that would solve all my problems with mid and high sounds.. Did some interesting discovery today. switched fase (+-) on the sub, and run them bridged on the amp. Result: a much better and natural, smooth sub sound. hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Bought that set of Morels today. Installing them tomorrow. It will be interesting... I expect that levels will be in balance and hope that tomorrow I can say WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 WOW - Those things really rock. Treble is silk smooth and just right. Those 4" mids sound a lot bigger than they are. You cant hear crossing point where the mids end, and the tweeters start, thanks to that pre-adjusted crossover box that came with that set. Levels are perfect. Those clearly needs running in. When playing with normal volumes, sound tends to be a bit too sharp, but when turning the volume up, they show what they can do. I'm confident that after maybe 20 hours, the sound will improve eaven more. I can now say that this set is a lot better than Harman Kardon Logic7 set in our mercedes. I can recommend this to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizze Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Morels are truly stunning!! They take around 80 hours to run in though, they then become very smooth. Did they fit nicely in the door?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I actually got that shop to install those for free as I returned those DLS tweeters. But talked to the guy, and he said that it fitted without any modifications, only washers were needed. Crossovers are glued to doorpanel. Tweeters fit in as they were. 80 hours.. ouch... oh well, its nice to hear that everytime sound is getting better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kildegaard Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I actually got that shop to install those for free as I returned those DLS tweeters.But talked to the guy, and he said that it fitted without any modifications, only washers were needed. Crossovers are glued to doorpanel. Tweeters fit in as they were. 80 hours.. ouch... oh well, its nice to hear that everytime sound is getting better Lucky you! OK, You got me now. do you by any chance know where i can order the Morel Kit on the web?, And do you have any specific part# for the kit that you ordered. I'm already envious. It is exactly the kind of sound-feeling that you describe that I've been wanting in my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Lucky you!OK, You got me now. do you by any chance know where i can order the Morel Kit on the web?, And do you have any specific part# for the kit that you ordered. I'm already envious. It is exactly the kind of sound-feeling that you describe that I've been wanting in my car. Sound is stunning. I absolutely recommend this set. Ordered mine from hifitalo.fi, 299e delivered. I dont know if they ship aboard. Check yor LocalTalk resellers from morels site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amattila Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 iPhone auto-incorrection ... LocalTalk = local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbuck Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 How did you get the MP3 player to display on the dash display? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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