Audio upgrade in E60 535d

[treefrog911]

Thanks Gizze... I wired in a chunky power cable and have been running for many hours now without a glitch, so a very happy man!

When I think about it, the cigarette circuit was fused in the boot, so of course it will be a relatively thin cable running a long way (I'd initially assumed it was just a short cable connected to a big busbar at the front of the car). I suspect over that length there was probably a fair old voltage drop under load. With the 14v or so of the engine running this somehow exacerbated things. Now with a larger 6mm2 cable (what I had lying around) it's running very well.

Still gets a bit hot, up to 40 degrees or more, but I suspect that's to do with the 2 ohms business perhaps working the amp a bit harder. Also keeping it in the glove box probably doesn't help. However I've salvaged an old 12V CPU fan and might stick that on top of it to help increase airflow.

Cheers again!

Dave

[gizze]

Glad it is working properly Dave.

So how does it sound?

[d9nut]

Anyone in the Wiltshire / Bristol or surrounding areas running this kind of setup? (Or Maidenhead type area every other Wed) Would love to have a listen - even better if you have ipod connectivity!

I'm looking to upgrade my 545 but not sure if this setup will be enough - previous system in the E39 included a pair of 12s, Pheonix Gold line drivers & bass cube, infinity kappa components all round, Alpine V12 running components, 1600W Kenwook amp running bridged into the 12s @ 2ohm stable, 1F cap, Pioneer DEH-P88RS.

Other route I've been thinking about is re-using parts of the previous system but being converted to line outputs & eq'd using a Rockford 3sixty.2...

[nborgix]

Anyone with any info on how good is the Helix PP-40 DSP amplifier? (from info on the site it looks a very clean and easy install)

I also wanted to choose some aftermarket speakers to replace the OEM ones. Can someone give me the dimensions of the OEM ones (or even better the enclosure dimensions)? I need to make sure the speakers will fit before buying them.

Thanks

[GAZ-MAN]

Hi all, i have a bmw e60 2004 with no pro logic system, the stereo sound is terrible, i turn it up and it sounds ok then after about 5-10 mins with it turned up front speakers start crackling and fading off, so i have jus ordered a blaupunkt tha 555 amplifier and long wiring harness, good move you's reckon? was also going to order the dls r4 components anyone had this problem with there speakers doing this? thanks

[DCF88]

Hi

Looking at an audio upgrade for my 2008 535d. I have had the Gateway 500 installed for iPod use and am looking at the JL Audio xd700/5 amp and the SWS-8xi subs. I have read with interest the thread started by Gizze and would like to know if I should leave the other speakers standard or consider changing them. Also, am I correct in assuming that the L7 tweeter is a good upgrade and drops right in.

Thanks

[treefrog911]

Glad it is working properly Dave.

So how does it sound?

Sorry to return with bad news. Was hoping to post instead some pics of the install complete with the little 12V fan keeping it cool!

As you might remember, I upgraded the power supply cables to my THA275 and that seemed to cure the drop-outs. However, over time have found that it doesn't... it just made the situation better so that these drop-outs weren't happening all the time, and so were less in-your-face.

A guy in a car audio shop reckoned I might have a grounding problem, so today I relocated the amp to the boot so that I could run really short power supply and ground cable direct to the battery. Would recommend doing this to anyone as there's a lot more space to work on it there! I've now got an 8mm2 earth wire and really heavy duty alternator cable for the 12v feed. These cables are physically as large as you're going to get fit in the connector block and are wired direct to battery (in fact I had to trim the alternator cable quite a lot to squeeze it in). The power cable has a 40A fuse fitted.

Still getting the drop-outs. I can't see how to improve the power situation further.

The only possible clue I have is that by setting the balance to full right or full left, the drop-outs become much, much worse. With balance central they still happen, but with it set fully left or right it stutters almost continuously. Also it *seems* to be not as bad without the engine runnning, but definitely still drops out.

Any ideas?

As a thought, is it perhaps something to do with having the tweeters in-line with the front speakers, messing up the impedance? I don't really want to dismantle the doors to test this, but am frankly happy to throw money at this now to make the problem go away! So is there another amp (that'll work on a speaker-level input signal) I could buy that might be more capable of handling the impedance etc? For example had a quick browse and found a Pioneer PRS-D220 which looked much like the Blaupunkt but a bit higher power?...

Thanks in advance,

Dave

[gizze]

You could look at the Vibe Litebox Stereo 2.

Get them on ebay from vibe for good money.

Sure the amp isn't faulty??

[Tipex]

Probably nothing to do with it, but I had a similar problem a long time ago, when I used to bother with aftermarket stuff as a teenager, and I cured it by fitting a power cap, as otherwise the amp couldn't get enough power quickly enough, and heavy bass used to trip it out, the power cap ensures an even and constant power supply, with enough in reserve for those spikes in power delivery that are required every now and again.

[treefrog911]

You could look at the Vibe Litebox Stereo 2.

Get them on ebay from vibe for good money.

Sure the amp isn't faulty??

Will give one of those a try I think. I don't think the amp's faulty as this is the 2nd one I've had (although the first one of course wasn't wired properly)...

[afsar.imam]

Hi Gizzie/Chaps,

I am new to this audiophile world.

Now I am thinking of upgrading my stock 535d E60 LCI May 2007 built audio setup. I am not 100% sure what it has currently! I could see 10 spearkers (2 sub underseat, 2 on the front door with 2 tweeters near mirror, 2 in the rear parcel with 2 tweeters, front middle sub container is just empty) I will assume this is hi-fi (not logic7/top hi-fi).

My problem is I could not find any amp in the rear trunk area. Assuming this is 10 speaker hi-fi system it must have a amp somewhere. What will be the possible upgrade route for me. Also I could hardly hear anything from the front tweeters. This stock setup gives good quality music but can I upgrade it further? I want to do it in stages. Please suggest possible routes.

[Vista]

having read it in full, a very useful and informative thread

Some of the more detailed stuff is way beyond my understanding but I have what I think is a fairly simple question.

I have the basic system in my E61, i.e. two speakers in the rear roof, two mid range in the floor and two mid range in the front doors, no tweeters and I assume no external amp so all powered by the head unit.

Can I add the L7 tweeters to the doors without any other changes? i.e. will the head unit cope with the addition of these? From reading through the thread, I wasn't clear on whether people were adding the tweeters and were now powering the front door speakers from the added AMP along with the additional subs or whether the front door speakers were staying on the head unit?

Anyone any advice to offer?

[Vista]

Another question, REAL OEM list two different Top HiFi tweeter part numbers:

Pre Sept 2005 cars: 651 369 19351

Post Sept 2005 cars: 651 369 78631

My car is pre Sept 2005 (just) but will the later speaker type still fit? Which one should I go for?

[afsar.imam]

Disappointingly my car had just 6 speakers, 4 tweeters (2 in the front and 2 in rear) were simply not present at all! :mad:

Today I upgraded front mids with Diamond Audio 343i and added Alpine DDT-S30 tweeters too. Result was stunning!!! Unbelievably a whole spectrum which wasn't coming from the existing speakers (and lack of tweeter) was audible for the first time ever. This is best upgrade I would recommend to everyone before attempting anything else. Total cost of upgrade was ~£85 and I feel like this is all I wanted from a simple car audio. I know possibilities are unlimited but they come with a hefty price tag and lot of planning and hardwork with it. You can't imagine kind of noticeable difference 85 quid can bring to your car audio by such a simple upgrade.

Diamond Audio 343i is a coaxial mid driver which I wasn't sure required here; a simple 343 (non coaxial) would have done the job but I couldn't find 343 so went for 343i. Its a good spec speaker for a reasonable price. Best part was Apline DDT-S30 tweeter, it is simply awesome. Not sure how would it sound it you just add S30 to stock mids, did not try that. My idea behind new mid was due to future upgrade, if I ever wanted to go down THA555 route then stock mids aren't good enough, 343i mids were straight fit to my E60 LCI 535d's door card. You have to make your own connector which isn't rocket science.

Quite tempted to put one pair of DDT S30 tweeters in the rear too. At the moment no tweeters in the back just empty cavity and stock subs. Not sure if these coaxial mids with tweeters at the front are already too much for higher end of spectrum.

[afsar.imam]

As I am doing upgrade in stages, can someone please suggest if just replacing existing 6.5" subs with Earthquake SWS-8 4 ohm without amp will work or not? In other words can existing HU drive SWS-8 speakers? I want to buy THA555 amp later. I know THA555 has more power but I believe more power will give louder music (and deeper bass too), which I can live without at the moment. Adding amp involves a lot more then just replacing speakers. Don't want to takeout HU, undo trim all the way upto trunk, deal with lot of cables etc. in the short days of winter.

Any advise here?

[Saber007]

Firstly i want to say thanks to everyone. I would not have been able to attempt this install with this great thread.

Ok, I have completed installation but have a couple of questions.

SPECS

Car - 520D E60 OEM head unit.

Amp - Blaupunkt Tha-555 with plug n play harness

Front & Rear Speakers Focal 100KRS 100W (nominal 50W) 120 to 20,000HZ

Subs 2 x Earthquake SWS-8 (4 ohm)

I have used the existing wiring for the front and rears and have run new wiring for the 2 subs direct to the amp.

I have set the gain to 8V for the front and rears and about 4-5V for the sub.

The cossovers of the front and rear are about 120HZ (it is really hard to tell on this amp) and the subs are set for about 20 - 150HZ

Firstly let me say the sound is like 1000x better then before however i have one main problem.

When i turn up the music to full (which i don't think is very loud) i will get clipping on the front left speaking and sometimes on the front right but never on the rears.

This only happens when there is lots of bass, obviously pushing the amp. I am using my iphone via the usb/aux imput.

My question is why am i getting clipping at all. I would have thought this amp would be able to easily handle the power.

I actually wanted to turn the gains up slightly on the front and rears to get a bit more volume but with the clipping it is not possible.

Can anyone suggest what might be causing this.

By the way if i swap the front and rear inputs on the amp the clipping swaps also so i know it isn't the cables or speakers.

Thanks for any help you guys can give me.

[winbar]

Will give one of those a try I think. I don't think the amp's faulty as this is the 2nd one I've had (although the first one of course wasn't wired properly)...

Dave

Just been following this thread as I am about to carry out the exact same upgrade as yourself, but I have become a little wary having followed all your amp heating problems.

Did you finally solve the issue/s? If so, can you let me in on the secret of your success?

Thanks

Win

[richii]

I Think the problem with the 275 amp may be an impeadance one as its driving 3 speakers per channel sub/mids in doors/logic 7 tweaters

if all 3 are 4ohm impeadance then total is 1.33ohms.

if the logic 7 tweaters are 2ohms which i think they may be then total impeadance is 1ohm.

This is too low for this amp and will cause the protection circuit to come on causing the temporary drop out in sound.(As impeadance from speakers is not linear ie varies at different frequencies, then some of the time it may be okay but others not depending on the music being played and volumes).

This is not present in the 555amp set up as the subs are being fed by their own amp thus upping the impeadance and making the logic 7's and door mids an easier load. Try without L7's and if they are 2ohm try non L7 tweater if its a 4ohm.

[afsar.imam]

Finally I managed to add an AMP and I used PDX-5 and replaced stock sub with sws-8. Keep in mind sws-8 is not a direct fit, you need to break some fins on the sub container to make it fit, also the side where original cable is fitted has to be somehow sealed. It was difficult for me but somehow managed to do it.

Sound way better and volume it unlimited (for my ear), I haven't tweaked settings much but it very very good. One thing though; on lower frequency I can hear a rattle on high volume. Not sure what is loose around subs. Its too much work to find and fix it.

I am not sure how you guys managed to fit THA-555 AMP in the boot, PDX-5 is smaller but can't find a place to hide it in the boot. I am thinking of screwing it to the left side carpet. No option otherwise.

I would suggest to use 3/4 channel amp, 5 channel costs a lot extra and not really worth it as rear speakers can be left as it is.

Edited February 4, 2011 by afsar.imam

[99ron]

I Think the problem with the 275 amp may be an impeadance one as its driving 3 speakers per channel sub/mids in doors/logic 7 tweaters

if all 3 are 4ohm impeadance then total is 1.33ohms.

if the logic 7 tweaters are 2ohms which i think they may be then total impeadance is 1ohm.

This is too low for this amp and will cause the protection circuit to come on causing the temporary drop out in sound.(As impeadance from speakers is not linear ie varies at different frequencies, then some of the time it may be okay but others not depending on the music being played and volumes).

This is not present in the 555amp set up as the subs are being fed by their own amp thus upping the impeadance and making the logic 7's and door mids an easier load. Try without L7's and if they are 2ohm try non L7 tweater if its a 4ohm.

I've had the same "cutout" issue as treefrog911 but without the heat issue. I have a E60 535d M Sport 06 w/Media Pack. Added L7 top-hifi tweeters and THA275 with 2.5M cable into the glovebox powered off the head-unit. Sound cuts out when you turn it up. It's better with something like a Ministry of Sound dance compilation with lots of constant noise but something like "The XX" Mercury prize winning album with quiet bits and some heavy bass bits absolutely destroys it at just medium volume (track 5 especially). Like others on here I also found the L7 tweeter a bit harsh. Turning the treble to about -3 seems to help. I read somewhere the standard Prof head-unit has the treble artifically tweaked up a bit to cater for lack of standard fit tweeters but don't know if that's true or not.

Anyhow, disconnected the L7's at the weekend (expert at door panel removals now!) to see if it is an Ohms issue but really that made no difference. Gonna buy the 5M cable and mount in the boot so I can power directly off the battery to see if that helps. Probably wait till warmer weather before I tackle that one... might look out for a second hand THA555 while I'm waiting.. then maybe some SMS-8's. Be nice to get this working first though.

Edited February 16, 2011 by 99ron
Can't Spell!

[gizze]

You can't run these off the head unit, you need to run power direct from the battery.

Also, you did buy 4ohm subs and not the 2ohm yeah??

[karman1977]

hi

found this forum and read all posts about upgrading sound, i said quality, but find out that there is so many options that even dont know from which corner start :D

as i know that i dont have subs under seats, have speaker at front doors with tweeters, at rear are 2 speakers, i think into midconsole also i have a speaker.

auto: BMW E61 2004

what would be normal upgrade solution for me?

add subs that for sure, but if i dont have underseat so i need do some wiring from head unit, right?

sorry for my English

[Krishan]

Hi,

This is my first ever post and am new to forums. I have an E60 facelift 535d, I’ve been told by BMW it has the standard sound after complaining about the poor quality and distorted sound, they said that’s how it’s suppose to be, crap. They say it has no amp either.

With the standard audio, I think I have front door speaker and shelf speakers, not sure if there are any subs?

I’ve read through the thread but am a beginner to this and would appreciate some advice.

I would like to upgrade the sound at a minimal cost. From what I see the first thing is to get L7 tweeters for front doors. Is there a particular set i need, there was mention of 2ohm and 4ohm ones? Do i need to have an amp to power these even if they plug into the door speakers? If i only did the tweeters and nothing else would that improve things or make it worse?

Geezee mentioned there was no need to change the standard speakers and maybe just replacing subs, L7 and an amp.

I presume an amp is a must to improve the sound, any suggestions which one to get and i presume this will depend on if subs to be replaced?

Are there speakers in the rear door? Would it be good idea to have tweeters in the rear shelf as well as front door or not worth it? Can you put speaker in the front centre console in the dash and is wiring already there and will this run on the existing audio or will amp be needed and wiring from amp as well?

Don’t want to spend much and have never wired an amp before but am willing to give it a try with some help from you guys, please.

Sorry for all the questions, would appreciate your advice as the sound currently is worse than my headphones, don’t know why bmw bothered with it.

[DaveP]

i have done just the tweeters and that is more than enough (IMO).

[Biscuits]

i have done just the tweeters and that is more than enough (IMO).

This is a remarkably good upgrade, I'm not sure why they didn't include tweeters in the standard audio setup (other than penny pinching)... adding them makes a world of difference.

The next big upgrade is to add a good amplifier (like the THA555) and drive the under-front-seat subs separately (as standard they are wired in with the front door speakers)