Lexus 48 hour test drive !

[Dave]

Put the Toyota Pious to one side, Lexus only seem to put the hybrid system into their more powerful cars. Is this because a hybrid on it's own with a small engine isn't marketable or just too slow?

They probably arn't powerful enough to pull all the batteries around!

[garcon magnifique]

What about that hydrogen/electric car that Jame May reviewed on TG last week? I reckon that's a step further forward than the Lexus option

The Honda Clarity isn't a step further forward. It's a huge, once in a generation, great big LEAP forward.

Put the Toyota Pious to one side, Lexus only seem to put the hybrid system into their more powerful cars. Is this because a hybrid on it's own with a small engine isn't marketable or just too slow?

Maybe LMD could give us the inside on Lexus's philosophy here. The way I see it, it's Lexus's way of giving their high end models the performance of their rivals' high end petrol models with the economy of their high end diesel models. Bear in mind the main market is Japan and the US, neither of which have taken to diesel the way we have in Europe.

In truth, I think the hybrid system is brilliant but flawed. The Lexus hybrids are more economical and cleaner than equivalent diesels around town, but only as economical as petrol equivalents out on the open road. Their biggest single problem is battery technology - size, weight, effort to recharge, clean manufacture/disposal - and most of those issues will be resolved (or at least improved) in the next generation of hybrids.

[shark_90]

Oh yeah, by the way ...

I'd rather have a Lexus full of Toyota bits than an Audi full of VW bits...

But you drive a Subaru, so your views are null and void. They're made out of old calculators too.

[Mook]

But they're still quicker than old Audi S2s

[shark_90]

Can't argue with that

[Mook]

Yes you can

[garcon magnifique]

Fortunately, when Prodrive chipped mine they took off the Casio badge...

[Chick]

:roflmao:I can't believe LMD has bothered to log-in at the airport to put a response on this .... now that is funny/sad/not really going on holiday/wife is obviously ignoring u (any ideas y?)/hope the hotel has internet/, delete those not applicable - saying that why am I replying?? - doh!

I'm gonna get the sack at work for spending all my time keeping up with this thread ... oh no wait, I'm one of the bosses, wonder if this is cheap-thrill is tax-deductable?

[Nelson_R32]

To be fair I did the same when I was in New York in June... But I'm a self confessed sad bastard if that counts?

[alera]

The best part of this thread is Garcon and others insulting each other. I am bored now. I would be even more bored if I bought a lexus though.....

[danksy]

I have only just read through this thread!

LMD - I know a few people in the motortrade who are from East London and are iron's fans, and knowing what a small world it is I'll PM you to see if you know any of them!

Surely the 48hr test drive is sponsored (read paid for) by the marketing budget for Lexus UK?

They surely provide the car and keep it so it's not "adpoted" onto main dealer stock, so maybe it is the marketing department who need flaming rather than someone who has a tongue in cheek jibe at you!? Maybe sugest that maybe you can get some back margin by achieving a certain number of test drives. I have never owned a Lexus, but have actually got an admiration for the way the brand has developed.... who knows if I drove one I might like it?

Welcome to TSN anyway, and keep the banter but try not to get too personal with people!

Edited December 23, 2008 by danksy

[Soapsuds]

But you drive a Subaru, so your views are null and void. They're made out of old calculators too.

funk me, i wish my Subaru was the Solar powered Casio i used to use at school

If it was, it would STILL be quicker than an old S2 too too me doo doo too.

[scooby_simon]

Has LMD gone to Benidorm in his Football shirt then then ? Right, how about a TSN meet over Chrimbo at Silverstone, everyone must turn up in a Lexus (any one of 'em) from the "free 48 hour test drive" promo, I'll pay for the tracktime, slowest lap (*ahem* that'll be Tipex) can buy the beers afterwards.

Seriously, as funny as this thread has been in places, if he is a Main dealer car salesman, they are doomed - the damage he has done !

Right then : Silverstone, put your name down -

Duisberg + 1 - driving a RX400h in that hideous earwax beige colour they all seem to come in.

What a stonking idea...

[cruiser647]

50 pages!

50 fecking pages this has made it onto (standard layout)

[LEXUS-MAINDEALER]

What a stonking idea...

Hello Bum Bandits, I've just landed and thought I'd pop on and post another interesting insight into the Lexus Hybrid Drive before going off and having a few beers. Looks like it's been very quiet on here over the last 5 hours or so whilst I've been travelling. It's fascinating to see what those lovely chaps at Top Torque have been saying about you lot!!!

It would be good to hear your replies on this amazing piece of engineering, don't think Audi can touch this can they? urr that'll be a big NO then won't it.

At the core of all Lexus Hybrids is the advanced Lexus Hybrid Drive system, which combines a powerful petrol engine and a high-output electric motor. Together they work seamlessly to produce incredible power, while reducing harmful emissions. Three luxury hybrids. One groundbreaking technology.

During fast acceleration, and when maximum power is required, Lexus Hybrid Drive simultaneously uses its petrol engine and electric-drive motor to produce exceptional performance.The electric-drive motor supplements the petrol engine, providing higher torque. Which means a V6 engine feels more like a V8, and a V8 feels more like a V12.

Regenerative braking allows the electric-drive motor to act as a generator when the vehicle is coasting or braking. Kinetic energy that normally would be lost during deceleration is captured and subsequently converted into electric energy. This energy is then used to charge the battery, further increasing the hybrid system’s efficiency. The regenerative braking system is especially effective during stop-and-start city and town driving.

Inside every Lexus Hybrid is a high-output, nickel-metal hydride battery designed to last for a minimum of 100,000 vehicle miles. It stores the electricity generated by the Lexus Hybrid Drive system, helping to ensure the vehicle has the power it needs when it’s required.

A highly efficient generator converts surplus petrol-engine power into electricity, which is then stored in the hybrid battery for future use. This generator is also responsible for starting the petrol engine whenever it’s required.

An energy monitor allows the driver to observe, at a glance, the power flow and fuel efficiency of the vehicle. Information is shown in the form of simple animated graphics. The energy screen displays the way power is being routed to the drive wheels and when the battery is being charged. The energy monitor is standard on the LS Hybrid and GS Hybrid and available on the RX Hybrid.

Essentially the brain of the hybrid system, the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) manages the power flow between the electric motor generator, battery and petrol engine. By constantly monitoring various driving conditions, the ECU allows the transmission to get optimal power and fuel consumption from the powertrain.

Performance is further enhanced by the Electronically controlled Continuously Variable Transmission (ECVT). Unlike typical automatic transmissions that have a fixed number of gear combinations, the Lexus Hybrid’s ECVT allows for virtually unlimited combinations, maximizing the powertrain’s efficiency and allowing the driver to enjoy smoother acceleration. Even with everything the ECVT does, it requires no additional maintenance.

The planetary gear set manages the physical interaction between the petrol engine, electric-drive motor and generator. Despite its compact size, the planetary gear set provides yet another important service: seamlessly distributing power between the gasoline engine and the electric-drive motor.

Typically, when a Lexus Hybrid starts up or is driven at low speeds, the vehicle produces no harmful emissions since it is being powered solely by the electric motor. The LS Hybrid also features an EV mode, which, under certain conditions, enables you to drive the vehicle for short distances using only the power of the electric motor. This distance depends on battery charge and driving conditions.

[Chris_B]

People think that it's their god given right to go to a dealership and spout total bollocks.

Like you when you go to work each day?

I must be the biggest cock in the world in your eyes, as I've bought quite a few Audis and driven an awful lot of them in the last ten years.

Thanks for a fantastic thread, it's made for a jolly good read.

As for Lexus, I do rather like the idea of some of them, though I find the looks challenging sometimes. However, I visited the Lexus dealer nearest my office, fully suited and looking dapper, and arriving in my just-cleaned A8 W12. I wanted to look at one of those hybrid 'executive' (Lexus' words, not mine I think) saloon thingies, the ones that look a bit like a startled frog from the front - is that an LS? Anyway, I stood there politely poking around the low-spec LS in the showroom and trying to catch the eye of a sales person.

Said sales people were busy propping up the reception counter, talking to the slightly plump young lady there, and what appeared to be a delivery driver. Nobody seemed interested in the potential purchaser. So I left.

And I went to my Audi dealer, where I was met with a smile, a handshake and some pleasantries by the dealer principle, the A8 sales guy, another salesman, one of the courtesy drivers, the receptionist and a service advisor and the service manager in that order. I was quickly given a seat, a coffee and an ear to talk into. I made enquiries about the S8 and ended up buying one.

And later an allroad, another S8, and RS 6 and an S5.

I've never set foot in that Lexus dealer again, and nor do I see why I should.

Perhaps it's just cock dealers sticking together with us cock drivers, eh?

So, much as I'd love to have you try to sell me a Lexus, I suspect you're in the wrong part of the country, my Audi dealers looks after me too well, I like Audis too much, and in all likelyhood you aren't even a Lexus salesman.

But you're funny, I'll give you that.

[cruiser647]

Inside every Lexus Hybrid is a high-output, nickel-metal hydride battery designed to last for a minimum of 100,000 vehicle miles. It stores the electricity generated by the Lexus Hybrid Drive system, helping to ensure the vehicle has the power it needs when it’s required.

100, 000 miles? Is that all?

What happens when the batteries die? The car will be on the 2nd or 3rd owner by then. I am sure they won't want to have to replace them.

Can it run on just the engine with dead batteries?

You see, Audi have cancelled all their hybrid stuff and have said they'll instead concentrate on reducing weight.

Besides, a decent diesel engine will bet more combined mpg than petrol and battery.

Why didn't/don't Lexus combine a decent V diesel with the hybrid and reduce their emissions and tax bracket a bit more?

[Nelson_R32]

Blimey! You must be on a Cruise Ship then? As I don't know of any commercial planes that have internet access. Especially one where it's easy to copy n paste

I suggest you take a look at the TSN news section. Audi have already developed many Hybrid variants;

Audi’s plans for petrol-electric hybrids are on hold indefinitely following a decision to postpone the hybrid Q5.

Autocar revealed in July that the Q7 would not get a hybrid powertrain, with the company deciding to focus on more efficient diesels and cutting weight from its cars.

Now the Q5, which was next in line for the technology, won’t be available as a hybrid either.

Senior sources said: “Audi won’t produce a petrol-electric hybrid until we can make nickel metal hydride batteries safer in crash situations, and hybrid technology more efficient overall. Until then we will concentrate on producing more efficient diesel engines and aluminium chassis.”

The Q5 will now be fitted with a stop-start system, and could get further fuel-saving technology. Audi’s answer to BMW’s Efficient Dynamics initiative won’t get a specific name, as the company wants to promote the belief that the improvements are a natural part of its technical progress.

The new technology could make its debut on the A1 supermini, due in 2010, but development is sufficiently advanced that it could be added to existing models next year.

So, Hybrid technology is a false economy in itself as the batteries are heavier and they require allot of crash protection which in turn adds even more weight to the car. Hence Audi's decision to postpone it to the market.

In fact, Audi's recent weight saving measures probably give more benefits than a Hybrid car ever could at this moment in time. Compare a B7 A4 to a B8; a larger and more spacious car but an average of 200kgs lighter than the previous model. The benefits are endless; materials, cost of production, economy, CO2 emissions, reduced tyre wear, potential longer service intervals on the AVS regime etc etc.

[LEXUS-MAINDEALER]

Blimey! You must be on a Cruise Ship then? As I don't know of any commercial planes that have internet access. Especially one where it's easy to copy n paste

I suggest you take a look at the TSN news section. Audi have already developed many Hybrid variants;

So, Hybrid technology is a false economy in itself as the batteries are heavier and they require allot of crash protection which in turn adds even more weight to the car. Hence Audi's decision to postpone it to the market.

In fact, Audi's recent weight saving measures probably give more benefits than a Hybrid car ever could at this moment in time. Compare a B7 A4 to a B8; a larger and more spacious car but an average of 200kgs lighter than the previous model. The benefits are endless; materials, cost of production, economy, CO2 emissions, reduced tyre wear, potential longer service intervals on the AVS regime etc etc.

Oi Cock Smoker, before you start make sure you read my posts. Took off at 10.55am and landed a while back and am now at the apartment. Think you should pay a little more attention or go and stand in the corner until you're told otherwise. No shut up because you are talking horse pooh, Bell End!

[garcon magnifique]

100, 000 miles? Is that all?

What happens when the batteries die?

It does say a minimum of 100k, but yes I'd see that as a concern given that there are plenty of Lexus LS400s out there on 3-400,000 miles and more and going strong.

In terms of what happens when they die, they cancel out any gains you might have had in emissions by requiring all kinds of complicated disposal measures.

I could see me in a Lexus LS one day, but it'd more than likely be the LS460 than the LS600h. I reckon the 460 driven economically would match the real world economy figures of the heavier hybrid.

[shark_90]

Who are "Top torque" ? :confused:

[Mollox]

I like the idea of the Silverstone Grand Prix (ck?)

Maybe we could do it for charity?

[LEXUS-MAINDEALER]

I like the idea of the Silverstone Grand Prix (ck?)

Maybe we could do it for charity?

Mollox my dear chap that would be a bloody stupid idea, wouldn't it. Now let's get one thing straight, the ideal behind the Lexus 48 hour test drive campaign is to give genuine potential buyers the chance to drive engineering excellence. It is not intended for bored Audi drivers to fan the flames of anger amongst hard working and professional Lexus salesmen who have spent years perfecting the art of Kaizan.

[LEXUS-MAINDEALER]

Like you when you go to work each day?

I must be the biggest cock in the world in your eyes, as I've bought quite a few Audis and driven an awful lot of them in the last ten years.

Thanks for a fantastic thread, it's made for a jolly good read.

As for Lexus, I do rather like the idea of some of them, though I find the looks challenging sometimes. However, I visited the Lexus dealer nearest my office, fully suited and looking dapper, and arriving in my just-cleaned A8 W12. I wanted to look at one of those hybrid 'executive' (Lexus' words, not mine I think) saloon thingies, the ones that look a bit like a startled frog from the front - is that an LS? Anyway, I stood there politely poking around the low-spec LS in the showroom and trying to catch the eye of a sales person.

Said sales people were busy propping up the reception counter, talking to the slightly plump young lady there, and what appeared to be a delivery driver. Nobody seemed interested in the potential purchaser. So I left.

And I went to my Audi dealer, where I was met with a smile, a handshake and some pleasantries by the dealer principle, the A8 sales guy, another salesman, one of the courtesy drivers, the receptionist and a service advisor and the service manager in that order. I was quickly given a seat, a coffee and an ear to talk into. I made enquiries about the S8 and ended up buying one.

And later an allroad, another S8, and RS 6 and an S5.

I've never set foot in that Lexus dealer again, and nor do I see why I should.

Perhaps it's just cock dealers sticking together with us cock drivers, eh?

So, much as I'd love to have you try to sell me a Lexus, I suspect you're in the wrong part of the country, my Audi dealers looks after me too well, I like Audis too much, and in all likelyhood you aren't even a Lexus salesman.

But you're funny, I'll give you that.

Hi Chris. You can redeem yourself by buying a new Lexus.

[Chris_B]

Hello Bum Bandits

--snip--

It would be good to hear your replies on this amazing piece of engineering, don't think Audi can touch this can they? urr that'll be a big NO then won't it.

Hello sphincter-biscuit! Enjoying your holiday? Wife topped her tan up yet (in other words bought any more San Tropez in duty free on the way out, 'cause you ain''t gonna get much sun this time of year are you?).

Well, Audi might not have anything in production right now that'sm a match for Lexus hybrid drive thingy, but they've always been a keen forward-thinking proponent of research into hybrids; note the Duo.

Valid though the Lexus system is, I think integrating the electric motor into the drive shaft is an interesting proposition, as is Audi's idea for small cars, which is to quattro-enable them by using a small electric motor on the rear wheels of a traditional FWD car. It's good that different manufacturers are trying different things out - it will help derive the best solutions through an evolutionary process driven by market forces, after all.

Everyone could do with getting off NiMh batteries (or whatever the buggery it is they use) for something Lithium-based, as the research of 'paper' batteries using carbon nanotube sheets in a Lithium-based design would be easier to adopt if they come to fuitition, meaning early hybrids could be adapted and upgraded to later technology rather than just trying to flog new cars when technology changes, which is you're looking to do some planet saving, has to make sense, no?

In fact, there's a challenge for a really green government: legislate so that upgradable low-CO2 tech cars get tax breaks, or upgrading a car gets tax breaks. Any politicians got the balls to even consider it then?

But I digress...