Which A8? SE or Sport? 07 or 08?

[xila]

I'm thinking on getting a nearly new A8. They seem to be great value at the minute. So I need to decide which age and model. My intended budget was about £25K and I will keep the car for about 4 years. Can anyone help with a few queries?

1. The brouchures imply very little difference between SE and Sport - so why do people buy the sport model over the SE - are there benefits?

2. Is there much difference in the 2007 model and the 2008 A8 which I guess started with 57 reg. I know the square foglights are the visible difference, but what about dynamics/spec? I think Xenons started as stanard in Mid 07 - and I want Xenons.

3. When did the emmission level change to 224g/km?

4. What are LED daytime running lights?

Looks like an 07 SE should be below budget whilst an 08 Sport is over budget. Which do you believe offers better value?

Thanks

Xila

[Figure11]

Xila,

Welocome to the forum. Can't help much as I am a D2 owner. Someone like CraigyB will be along shortly, he's had 2 D3s. Whichever you get you won't regret it.

Which engine are you after BTW?

Mike

[PsYcHe]

The sport had the sport suspension (funnily enough) which further tightens it down and will definitely have the sports seats (unless some idiot went for the comfort option... yes, some people did!)

I think the alloys were different (not sure about a bigger default size) and that's probably about it.. The sport seems pretty rare in the D3, but there will be plenty of SEs with the sport pack I imagine.

[Merlot]

Lots of questions but all sensible. I used to have a 55 plate 4.2 petrol Sport and now have an 08 plate facelift 3.0tdi SE, now with a remap.

The facelift was from October 2007 onwards. The suspension was recalibrated and xenons, heated front seats and digital radio were added as standard. Whilst I have lost the Sport air suspension with my change, the car feels very taught in the firmest suspension mode so I do wonder whether the software upgrade is more material than Audi are letting on.

You are obviously looking at the 3.0tdi which went from 231g to 224g in late 06 IIRC. Daytime LEDS are just on the facelift Sport IIRC.

Make sure you get the right seats for you. The standard seats are quite rare and the comfort seats are on most SE's as a cost option. The Sport has sports seats but personally I found these to be too hard and uncomfortable. Not saying this works for everyone but it is my experience.

The other thing to get right is wheels. The standard 17" is pretty weedy on the 3.0tdi but few cars have them. Both mine - bought 2nd hand - have had 19" wheels and I'm happy with that.

I doubt £25k would get you a facelift 3.0tdi but £29-32k would. £25k should produce a nice 07 plate SE with the Sport about £1-2k more. Do check the spec though as a remarkable number of cars don't have xenons. Ask about a remap once you've got a car.

PS I find that the paddle shift on the steering wheel is very useful.

[alera]

Well Merlot has said it all really ! January is going to be a very good time to buy.

Edited December 22, 2008 by alera

[xila]

Lots of questions but all sensible. I used to have a 55 plate 4.2 petrol Sport and now have an 08 plate facelift 3.0tdi SE, now with a remap.

The facelift was from October 2007 onwards. The suspension was recalibrated and xenons, heated front seats and digital radio were added as standard. Whilst I have lost the Sport air suspension with my change, the car feels very taught in the firmest suspension mode so I do wonder whether the software upgrade is more material than Audi are letting on.

You are obviously looking at the 3.0tdi which went from 231g to 224g in late 06 IIRC. Daytime LEDS are just on the facelift Sport IIRC.

Make sure you get the right seats for you. The standard seats are quite rare and the comfort seats are on most SE's as a cost option. The Sport has sports seats but personally I found these to be too hard and uncomfortable. Not saying this works for everyone but it is my experience.

The other thing to get right is wheels. The standard 17" is pretty weedy on the 3.0tdi but few cars have them. Both mine - bought 2nd hand - have had 19" wheels and I'm happy with that.

I doubt £25k would get you a facelift 3.0tdi but £29-32k would. £25k should produce a nice 07 plate SE with the Sport about £1-2k more. Do check the spec though as a remarkable number of cars don't have xenons. Ask about a remap once you've got a car.

PS I find that the paddle shift on the steering wheel is very useful.

Merlot,

Thanks for your replies. That is exactly the info I was looking for. I'm coming from a Touareg so I would actually worry that Sport would be too hard. If the SE has the adjustable suspension I'm sure that would be great. I will be getting an overnight in a 3.0Sport but there don't seem to be any SEs locally.

Don't you worry about Audi warranty for your remap - did you tell the insurance co? Did it make much difference. I think 19" wheels would have to be compulsary for appearance but I drove an A6 with 19" wheels and it was much too hard. Does the air suspension help? Surely the paddle shift is just a toy !!! Never had it in any of my cars but I would have thought it was just for the first month - interesting that you use it regularly.

I'd love to come back with more queries if you don't mind after I get a proper drive. I assume the car is really stable at this stage of its' life and that there are no major issues.

So what does your car not have that you miss?

Thnaks again

Xila

[xila]

Well Merlot has said it all really ! Januray is going to be a very good time to buy.

SO here's a interesting point. I have seen a number of A8s "increase" in price over the last couple of weeks. I assume this is in preparation for a big sale in January - but I'm sure that is just the cynic in me !!

Love your W12 - I can dream !!

[craigyb]

I have had an 04 W12 SWB with sport Suspension, an 07 SE without and now the facelift S8, all running on 20" rims. Can't say I've noticed any major differences in ride quality, maybe the S8 is a bit harsher now. The SE had comfort seats which were great.

The facelift has the square fogs, high gloss grills, lots more interior chrome bling around the door trims, glovebox handle, steering controls etc. Also the high gloss display, a lip on the boot etc.

[alera]

Over 17" adversely effects ride quality and causes a fair bit more noise. People don’t like to hear it but that’s just how it is. That said I have 19s and they look nice and would not change them. Sports suspension is generally thought to be desirable; I have no idea if it’s standard now or still and option.

The seats are a bit marmite people love the look of the sports seats but I agree with Merlot I find them a bit hard and not really suited to this sort of car. That’s just down to personal taste plenty of people would not buy one of these motors without the sports seats. You don’t seem to find many cars with the comfort seats on the used market but they are very comfortable, these cars have about the best interiors I have seen outside rollers / bentleys.

They seem pretty bullet proof the latest ones probably even more so, I have had a d2 before and they all seem to be reliable and well screwed together in fairness certainly more so than mercs, bmws I have had in the past. £25k for a nearly new one of these is just a stellar bargain, you can also get 08 3.0 tdi Phaetons with nice spec with very low miles for around £23k now (that’s what they are on for !) another great car. Not sure if the new 3.0tdis A8s fall into the £400 ved bracket March 06 onwards. If it does its worth considering as it will effect resale down the line. On prices going up I have been looking at a few cars recently that are relatively low in numbers and they have gone up 4 - 5K in a few weeks. I think people have been taking them off as prices fall and so with fewer around more enquiries are driving up the prices a bit. I am sure it wont last. Next year is going to be very bad for car sales across the board.

Edited December 22, 2008 by alera

[Merlot]

All A8's have four settings of air suspension and those fitted with 'sport' air suspension just have a firmer set up for all four. As I said earlier, I'm struggling to tell the difference between my facelift 'normal' suspension and pre-facelift 'sport' suspension as I drive round on the hardest setting on the 'normal' suspension which lowers the car by 20/25mm to the height which the 'sport' suspension has as standard. Clear? I'm not sure!

You can get air suspension on the A6 but most cars don't have it, instead having very hard S Line regular suspension. Drive a car with air and you will realise that the two don't compare.

The paddles are useful on hills etc but I don't use them much. The DAB on Audis' is also very impressive and is far better than BMW's system at keeping coverage.

Anything missing? I don't think so but by buying used you take a bit a chance. My first A8 had the TV (used it twice) and the 2nd one didn't but the 2nd one has all the blinds which are more useful for the kids - tints only became a factory option on the facelift.

I have always told insurers about a remap. It could present a warranty issue but the drivetrain on the 3.0tdi is very strong.

The only final comment is that the 4.2tdi, S8 and W12 are much heavier (115-130kg) with practically all that extra weight over the front axle as it is engine weight. Some other owners can possibly comment more on how this affects handling. Personally I went for the 3.0tdi always with the intention of a remap as it nearly offers 4.2tdi performance but with a more benign weight balance. These really are great cars at covering nearly all the bases. I took mine out for a blast yesterday and its ability to entertain always surprises me.

[xila]

I have had an 04 W12 SWB with sport Suspension, an 07 SE without and now the facelift S8, all running on 20" rims. Can't say I've noticed any major differences in ride quality, maybe the S8 is a bit harsher now. The SE had comfort seats which were great.

The facelift has the square fogs, high gloss grills, lots more interior chrome bling around the door trims, glovebox handle, steering controls etc. Also the high gloss display, a lip on the boot etc.

I love the lip on the boot - but not sure I can get one inside my budget and I don't want to increase budget that much. Trying to be somewhat prudent in current climate.

Xila

[xila]

Over 17" adversely effects ride quality and causes a fair bit more noise. People don’t like to hear it but that’s just how it is. That said I have 19s and they look nice and would not change them. Sports suspension is generally thought to be desirable; I have no idea if it’s standard now or still and option.

The seats are a bit marmite people love the look of the sports seats but I agree with Merlot I find them a bit hard and not really suited to this sort of car. That’s just down to personal taste plenty of people would not buy one of these motors without the sports seats. You don’t seem to find many cars with the comfort seats on the used market but they are very comfortable, these cars have about the best interiors I have seen outside rollers / bentleys.

They seem pretty bullet proof the latest ones probably even more so, I have had a d2 before and they all seem to be reliable and well screwed together in fairness certainly more so than mercs, bmws I have had in the past. £25k for a nearly new one of these is just a stellar bargain, you can also get 08 3.0 tdi Phaetons with nice spec with very low miles for around £23k now (that’s what they are on for !) another great car. Not sure if the new 3.0tdis A8s fall into the £400 ved bracket March 06 onwards. If it does its worth considering as it will effect resale down the line. On prices going up I have been looking at a few cars recently that are relatively low in numbers and they have gone up 4 - 5K in a few weeks. I think people have been taking them off as prices fall and so with fewer around more enquiries are driving up the prices a bit. I am sure it wont last. Next year is going to be very bad for car sales across the board.

Phaeton is great car, super to drive, but I don't know if I could live with the looks of the rear end - it is soo bland. Hope you are right on pricing...will there be a shortage of nearly new cars going forward? Are dealers still taking on demonstrators? Will production be slowed on the A8s and the like? Following the Lexus test drive thread - will a demonstrator be more likely to have been treated badly as people who have no interest in the car, act the hooligan with a demonstrator. :confused:

[xila]

All A8's have four settings of air suspension and those fitted with 'sport' air suspension just have a firmer set up for all four. As I said earlier, I'm struggling to tell the difference between my facelift 'normal' suspension and pre-facelift 'sport' suspension as I drive round on the hardest setting on the 'normal' suspension which lowers the car by 20/25mm to the height which the 'sport' suspension has as standard. Clear? I'm not sure!

You can get air suspension on the A6 but most cars don't have it, instead having very hard S Line regular suspension. Drive a car with air and you will realise that the two don't compare.

The paddles are useful on hills etc but I don't use them much. The DAB on Audis' is also very impressive and is far better than BMW's system at keeping coverage.

Anything missing? I don't think so but by buying used you take a bit a chance. My first A8 had the TV (used it twice) and the 2nd one didn't but the 2nd one has all the blinds which are more useful for the kids - tints only became a factory option on the facelift.

I have always told insurers about a remap. It could present a warranty issue but the drivetrain on the 3.0tdi is very strong.

The only final comment is that the 4.2tdi, S8 and W12 are much heavier (115-130kg) with practically all that extra weight over the front axle as it is engine weight. Some other owners can possibly comment more on how this affects handling. Personally I went for the 3.0tdi always with the intention of a remap as it nearly offers 4.2tdi performance but with a more benign weight balance. These really are great cars at covering nearly all the bases. I took mine out for a blast yesterday and its ability to entertain always surprises me.

Merlot,

I live on a C road or D road if there is such a thing, I'm quite rural and spend a lot of my time on country roads. Sounds like the SE is the correct model to go for then. Need to find an SE with nice wheels - some currently on the web are not for me.

I guess the low risk approach is to live with car for 3 - 6 months before remapping. Do insurance company add a price premium for remap?

Thanks - your feedback was exactly what I was hoping for.

Xila+++

[Merlot]

No probs. Insurance wasn't a problem but some call operators don't understand what you mean so you might have to ring back and get someone who understands.

My roads are as your's - that's why I like air suspension as its amazing what it cuts out. It is really noticeable getting back into my S4 as it feels like something is broken or there is no suspension. Don't be put off the Sport model A8 as its not much different to the SE really in handling. I would let the seat choice take preference.

Let us know what wou get.

[xila]

No probs. Insurance wasn't a problem but some call operators don't understand what you mean so you might have to ring back and get someone who understands.

My roads are as your's - that's why I like air suspension as its amazing what it cuts out. It is really noticeable getting back into my S4 as it feels like something is broken or there is no suspension. Don't be put off the Sport model A8 as its not much different to the SE really in handling. I would let the seat choice take preference.

Let us know what wou get.

Sure Merlot, will keep you updated, I'm sure I'll have more queries as I get closer to a decision.

Really appreciate your help

Xila

[alera]

There is almost certainly going to be less used cars of this type on the market moving forward as they wont be making as many, plus as prices fall people will hang onto them for longer, especially the pre march 06 cars with the lower ved. If you look at the prices some of these cars are going for now I just cant understand why people sell them - unless they have to that is.

I am going to keep mine for another year at least, maybe longer. Its still got over a year and a half on the full warranty and service package. Its easily the best car I have ever had and I have been lucky enough to have a few nice motors in my time.

Edited December 30, 2008 by alera

[nebw]

Hi,

I've owned a couple of D3's and driven many more. The main thing I want to add to what's been said already, is that the late 2007 facelift was more substantial than it first appears, in particular:

- the suspension was recalibrated and genuinely improved. I test drove a facelift Sport on 20s and it was as smooth as my pre-facelift Sport on 18s, and even managed less thump over cat's eyes/road joints. Pre-facelift cars on 19s or 20s have an unacceptably harsh and noisy ride, IMHO, for a £50k car;

- a quicker rack was fitted, which makes the steering more enjoyable on twisty B-roads, think this may be the same as the S8 rack;

- the whole body is better soundproofed: road noise drops noticeably (yes I know it wasn't too bad before).

Overall I'd say the late 2007 facelift finally turned the A8 into the "sporting" luxury car it should have been in the first place. It's finally as refined as the Phaeton, but of course it's still much lighter and more agile, as well as being better specced.

On SE vs Sport, I'd probably go for Sport, but if you go for SE make sure you get Comfort seats rather than standard, or at least try both to see if you can get comfy in the standard ones. The key differences are: (i) extendable leg support in the seat base and (ii) separate angle adjustment for the upper and lower half of the backrest.

Finally, if you can resist the call of the bling wheels, you won't regret it. Grip in the dry is as good as you could ever want on any set of wheels, and in the wet the narrower the tyre the better from an aquaplaning point of view.

If the car you choose comes with 20s, offer the dealer to swap down to 18s on another car if he has them, plus a bit of cash for you. You'll be able to park less than 4 feet away from kerbs, you'll get a super smooth and quiet ride, you'll use less fuel, the steering will feel lighter and more progressive, with zero tramlining, and you'll be able to afford to replace the tyres when they wear out !

Hope this helps.

Edited January 4, 2009 by nebw

[Merlot]

Some sound thoughts. Glad to see someone else with experience of pre and post Oct 07 facelifts. The only thing I'm not sure about is the wheel arch clearance on my facelift car - its an SE on 19" wheels, always used on the lowest supension setting but the wheel arch clearance still looks large - I will have to do some comparisions to see it the facelift changed the ride height.

I'd say again that my choice of SE or Sport would be taken purely on which seats people want. I'd happily have taken the combination of comfort seats and sports supension (in that order) but there are very few cars with that on offer.

[alera]

I have to agree comfort seats are priority they do make a big difference. Audi do the best seats in the business. Sports suspension desirable but not essential as the air suspsension is so good anyway.

I got lucky as I got both.

[nebw]

Xila,

A few more thoughts:

1) If your budget is about £25k, I would definitely hold out for a 2008 model. The difference in refinement and dynamics is worth an easy £4-5k in my book. If you look at Audi Used Car Locator and narrow it to cars up to a year old, there's a June 2008 SE with 3k miles at £30.5k, or a March 2008 Sport with 27k miles at £27k-ish. Those prices should be about to drop anyway.

There's a Dec 2007 facelift car at Bristol Audi that has been for sale since I was last looking for A8's, must be 3 or 4 months ago. They want £30k, maybe you should offer £24k and leave your number, so when they stop laughing and look at how many A8's they've actually shifted in the last year, they'll ring you back to nudge you up to £25k.....

2) Have you looked at contract hire ? There are some heavily subsidised deals still kicking around. This search:

Audi A8 car leasing offers - listing results 1 - 15

shows 3 year deals from about £450 plus VAT pcm. When you take into account the cost of capital, that's amazingly cheap. Bear in mind residuals on A8s will probably plummet again when the oil price starts to rise, as it must at some point in 2009/10.

Best of luck.

[Merlot]

I'd like to know how you get on with the Bristol Audi car as I tried to buy it two/three months ago and they were hard work but I got a better spec car elsewhere so fine in the end. As for leaving a low bid with your phone number, I tried that and one dealer (an independent) hung up on me before I got to the phone number stage! Ten weeks on they still have the car of course....

There is no photo on the March 08 Sport and it doesn't list xenons or BOSE which are standard on the facelift so its probably not.

Finally, I was surprised that they facelifted the A8 as it was only two years before the new model (autumn this year) and then when they did it they didn't fit the uprated 240PS/500Nm 3.0 diesel. I'm not concerned as I'm running a remap though.

[Merlot]

Its interesting how Audi dealers are running down their stocks of petrol A8's - only eight 4.2's, six 5.2's (S8's) and no W12's. Loads of diesels but, increasingly, the ex Audi UK cars are coming through as LWB which doesn't float my boat.

[alera]

Last time I looked there was only one w12 for sale on Autotrader, same one on piston heads and ebay. One car for sale in the UK.

It will be virtually impossible to get a mint w12 swb with good spec and low miles moving forward.

Edited January 5, 2009 by alera

[Merlot]

Indeed as they havn't made them for two years. There is this one here but the price is la la - has been as indicated for over four months:

http://www.marlowcars.co.uk/vehicle-details.asp?new=&region=&order=&Model=&Make=&notMake=&notModel=&BodyType=&FuelType=&Transmission=&intMin=&intMax=&RSpage=1&ID=616478&popup=

[alera]

Thats the one. Would not have been a bad price before things went pear shaped considering that is £80k plus of car and the rarirty but, thats the same age but far inferior spec to mine and I only paid £29k a year and a half ago. Plus he gave me back what I paid for my d2 a8 which I had run for 2 years !

Its got very low miles but mine had only done around 36k when I got it. Its on 46k now and still have over a year and half on the 5 year full service and maintenance package.

Not mentioned on that one either. Service package is worth at least £2k a year I would say year 3 - 5.

Edited January 5, 2009 by alera