CarMad Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 So a friend of mine has just got the results of pleading guilty to doing 52 in a 30. He was told when stopped that if he pleaded guilty and didn't go to court he would get a £60 and 3 points no questions asked. But as the thread title suggest he didn't and has been stung quite a bit more. Now I know that 52 in a 30 is pretty quick but what are the cross over points from a 3 to 6 points? Plus what are peoples thoughts on being told what he will get but then the courts giving out something far worse, right to appeal the result or let it lie. I don't think I would be happy if I was told it would be a small fine and a few points but then get something completely different.... ??? Oh and this really isn't me. +++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac_Terrorist Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Ouch! If he / she were to appeal, what grounds would you appeal on? I assume that there is no evidence of the conversation re pleading guilty and getting off a little lighter. That does seem extremely harsh though and I wouldn't be happy. Probably worth speaking to some kind of motoring offences legal eagle. Would have probably got off lighter had he/she stolen a car, had no insurance and become entangled in a police chase :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 When I got what I considered an unfair conviction I was advised not to appeal due to cost/potential of getting a worse sentence/fine & I can't really see them reversing the court's decision on the grounds it was a bit harsh in his eyes - don't forget he has plead guilty so there is no point of law to appeal/challenge on. He could appeal on the grounds there were some special circumstances that weren't heard at the time, represent himself & if lucky get the points reduced. Best bet would be to try to find out what the "going rate" is at the court that convicted him for the speed & then can gauge if was unduly harsh but will probably find that is what they give out so all appeal will achieve is more likely extra courts costs which if the appeal is unsuccesful will be passed onto him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I went to court over doing 48 in a 40 on the way to work when the office was on fire, trying to appeal exceptional circumstances (i.e. my livelihood was going to disappear). instead of 3pts and £60 on the FPN, I ended up with £100 and 6 pts, because the magistrate was an objectionable twunt. IMO of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon690 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 So a friend of mine has just got the results of pleading guilty to doing 52 in a 30. He was told when stopped that if he pleaded guilty and didn't go to court he would get a £60 and 3 points no questions asked. Plus what are peoples thoughts on being told what he will get but then the courts giving out something far worse, The copper on the street who is making the "arrest" is in no position to pre-judge the outcome of the prosecution process. The advice your friend was given was provided by someone who doesn't have any say in the punishment handed down so shouldn't be making such statements.:Slap: If you friend appeals he will loose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well I have a bit more info and this is a lesson to us all. It appears that he was given a fixed penalty at the scene for 3 points and a £60 fine but couldn't hand his licence over as he was off on holiday the following day and needed it to hire a car. This was where the comment came to plead guilty when the NIP comes through the post. However when it got reviewed it got sent out as a summons and not an NIP and hey presto extra points and a bigger fine. In hindsight he would have taken the points at the scene as he has done before a few years ago but the circumstances didn't allow for it. Make this be a lesson for us all. He isn't going to push it, apparently an estimate site has come up saying the fine might even increase if he contests it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerveq Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If a fixed penalty is issued at the roadside it will be £60 and 3 points. If you receive a summons to Court up to 40mph in a 30mph limit is 3 points; up to 50 in a 30 limit is 4-6 points(or possibly a ban of between 7 - 28 days - ban is very rare!) and up to 60 in a 30 limit could be anything from 6 points to a 56 day ban. Apart from the fixed penalty, fines are based on means with the lower end being up to half a week's income and the higher end equivalent to a week's income or somewhere in between. Each case is looked at on it's own merit and will take into account things like time of day, weather conditions, location etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 As always, this fecks me right off... not your mate (52 is pretty nimble for a 30) but the whole appeals process. You are potentially being punished for simply defending yourself, which in just wrong IMO. I consider it bribary... take these points now sir, or we'll give you more.WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 As always, this fecks me right off... not your mate (52 is pretty nimble for a 30) but the whole appeals process. You are potentially being punished for simply defending yourself, which in just wrong IMO. I consider it bribary... take these points now sir, or we'll give you more.WTF. I don't think fines are income related anymore & I disagree with the above. You have decided to ignore the "fast track" approach & instead have gone to court at considerable extra cost to you & the taxpayer so you can put across your mitigating circumstances in person. As such even if were found exactly the same surely CPS, policeman (maybe) magistrates, clerk or court, court building etc. must cost a whole lot more than a guilty plea & updating your driving licence ? I have been to court & got 6 points & a substantial fine but fortunatley didn't get the ban I am sure I would/should/could have ended up with & on another occasion got treated (IMHO) unfairly but both times were a decision on my part to have the "full works" and I undertsand this entails more cost etc. Perhaps would feel better if fine was 60 but court costs more accuratley reflected the true cost involved ? Good point on the licence & worth remembering the "offer" of a fixed penalty is just that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 It appears the fine is indeed means tested. If you say nothing and leave the field you are meant to fill out blank they will use the figure of £350 a week, or you put your salary in and potentially pay much more. The magistrate has the discretion to fine from £500 to £5000 for 6 points and the speed he was doing apparently. I've also go a copy of the guidance for points vs speed / speed limit they use as well. I will post it up later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 When I was last in court (some years ago now) I was told it was basically ignored & about to be abolished (for motoring offences) & indeed 3 of us all got the same fine but your friend is clearly more up to date ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 If he was riding a bike he'd have got 3 months in jail for being a potential mass murderer and to protect society from people like him and as a deterrence to all other such criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 That's a good point - I can't see a bike being offered a fixed penalty for 52 in a 30 ! Although I once got 3 points for 60+ in a 30 & 25UKP for failing to stop on a bike - thing is it wasn't me riding or my bike that did the crime so not pleased - although to be fair I didn't tell them I knew who had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 It appears that he was given a fixed penalty at the scene for 3 points and a £60 fine but couldn't hand his licence over as he was off on holiday the following day and needed it to hire a car. This was where the comment came to plead guilty when the NIP comes through the post. Eh? I've had a NIP on the spot (the dreaded long yellow form) without handing my license over - they just gave me a producer too, so I had seven days to check in at a bobbies shop with documents (never carry insurance docs, company insurance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Eh? I've had a NIP on the spot (the dreaded long yellow form) without handing my license over - they just gave me a producer too, so I had seven days to check in at a bobbies shop with documents (never carry insurance docs, company insurance). Yeah thats right, but he had a flight first thing the following morning and he was pulled just before midnight. So the Police said no problem just say guilty to what comes through the post and that will be the end of it. But it wasn't as explained above, hindsight is a very good thing and if he had his time again he would have dealt with it all on the spot or quickly afterwards, but he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Ah, I read it as they said they couldn't/wouldn't give him a NIP without his license etc. With you now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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