Bought an "Approved Used" car with dodgy tyres...

[Mook]

N/S/F: was 5mm, now 2mm (at the edges only, probably 3mm or better over the middle 3/4)

O/S/F: was 5mm, now 2mm (at the edges only, probably 3mm or better over the middle 3/4)

N/S/R: was 4mm, now 2mm

O/S/R: was 7mm, now 7mm

Spare: was 4mm, now 2mm!! (I haven't looked at the tyre for more than 2 minutes, let alone driven on it!)

The legal limit is 1.6mm.

The car was supplied with legal tyres from the PDC.

Sorry, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.

The OSR tyre has obviously been replaced (probably swapped for the spare).

Put the OSR back in the spare wheel well and replace all four tyres. That should set you back about £600.

[S4_marv]

I think I agree that there's not much hope in trying to get any goodwill on the tyres losing the tread, even though I know for a fact I haven't driven it far enough or hard enough to lose 3mm. Let alone the 2mm from the spare!!

They're not budging on driving the car back to me, so I'm now weighing up whether to get some new tyres delivered to them for fitting, or whether to drive it back myself and sort them from here.

I'm not up for a big fight on this now I don't think, as I know I'll have to change the tyres soon, and the current ones are pretty low budget.

The tyres I'm looking at are the Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas, seem to get very good reviews, and came out above all others (e.g. Goodyear F1s) in a German performance car magazine, and they're currently only £90 at Camskill:

[ATTACH]37718[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]37719[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]37720[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]37721[/ATTACH]

[Mook]

Vredesteins are quite hard wearing, so they should last and if you're looking at that kind of budget for a tyre, I would do it.

[Mollox]

No experience of them, but aren't they a German brand? Not like these Germans to go all nationalistic is it...

Try Event Tyres - I have heard lots of good things about them

[S4_marv]

Given that a lot of reviews say that they're as good as/better than the likes of the Contis & Goodyear F1s in terms of wet & dry grip, they're reportedly fairly quiet, the final question was how durable they are. If, like you say, Vredesteins are generally hard wearing then I think they're worth a try.

It's not so much that I'm after a cheapo tyre, as I don't think tyres are a clever place to skimp on quality, but if the reviews are correct and it's up there with the best, then at that price it seems like a no-brainer.

EDIT: Vredestein are Dutch I think, and unfortunately Event Tyres don't cover my area I don't think.

Edited December 3, 2009 by S4_marv

[quattroman]

Another thing I noticed as I was checking the PDC is that it states that on Quattros: "All four wheels must be fitted with tyres of the same type, make and tread pattern". (As someone has also previously posted). But the car was supplied to me with one odd tyre!

That was me and this is your best shot. They supplied a car that did not meet their own documented standards.

-Pete

[Tipex]

I've been championing the ultrac sessantas for a long time now, there are a few threads on TSN about them, easilly a match for F1's imo, and I'll be replacing the F1's on my legacy with them when the time comes, excellent wet and dry grip, both on and off track.

[Mook]

I'll be replacing the F1's on my legacy with them when the time comes

That'll be in 2015 at the rate of miles you don't do a year in that thing!

[Tipex]

Probably lol, the rears are getting a bit low actually, fronts only done a couple thousand miles, need to have the tracking done really as one of the rears is wearing unevenly, oh, and get the caliper sorted!

[Mook]

So that's all going to happen before May

[Tipex]

Well I have no intention of driving to Germany and back with only 3 working brakes. Again.

[Mook]

Maybe you should do a bit more than start it up two days before you leave to take it down to the MOT centre, then drive it straight to Dover

[micalee]

Another thing I noticed as I was checking the PDC is that it states that on Quattros: "All four wheels must be fitted with tyres of the same type, make and tread pattern"

With nothing to lose, I would contact Audi UK 0800 699888 and confirm what your car should wear tyre wise (what your after is for them to confirm that all four tyres should be of the same type, make and tread pattern). Get a contact name and then email your dealership again quoting that you have contacted Audi UK and they standby your claim of what tyres you should have. Remind them of the Sales of Goods Act and that fact that the vehicle was fitted with the wrong tyres at the point of sale is without doubt a safety issue. Due to the vehicles dynamics, the weight, the performance etc Audi specify that it should have XL grade tyres, same type, brand etc), as such the vehicle cannot therefore be deemed to be of Satisfactory Quality under the Sale of Goods Act and I would go further as to say not safe.

This would therefore have Insurance implications should there be an accident and quite possibly the Insurers would not pay out due to the incorrect tyres being fitted.

As a customer, you could also highlight that you have 'reasonable time' under the Sale of Goods Act to examine the goods to check that they are satisfactory and, as it would be unreasonable to expect for you to be familiar with the full specification of every element of the vehicle, equally it would be unreasonable to expect you to spot the tyre problem at the time of purchase.

You can mention that at no time did the salesman highlight that the vehicle was fitted with, albeit legal, but incorrect tyres during the sale; had this of happened, you would have most definately raised some concern.

I would then close the email by stating that in view of the foregoing and in accordance your rights under the Sale of Goods Act you would now expect them to take the necessary steps to replace all four vehicles tyres with tyres of the correct specification without further delay. Should you further decline, then you would have no alternative, but to hand the matter over to Trading Standards.

[Mook]

Erm, hang on a second.

I don't see where Marv has said his car wasn't fitted with XL tyres.

He's had the car for two months and he collected it with tyres shown in the report as having 5mm of tread.

[S4_marv]

Them's some fancy words Micalee! Thanks. I might just do that... Worth a punt anyway

Erm, hang on a second.

I don't see where Marv has said his car wasn't fitted with XL tyres.

He's had the car for two months and he collected it with tyres shown in the report as having 5mm of tread.

To be honest, I'm not sure whether or not the tyres are XL, but one is definitely odd, and the PDC specifically states that the tyres should be identical. I think that's what Micalee was getting at

Edited December 3, 2009 by S4_marv

[micalee]

To be honest, I'm not sure whether or not the tyres are XL, but one is definitely odd, and the PDC specifically states that the tyres should be identical. I think that's what Micalee was getting at

That is why I mentioned the XL tyres and just generally what the tyres should be. All four tyres should be XL as well as the other specifications that have previously been discussed.

In my case, they were not XL, regardless of tread depth and it is that sole point which I got them on.

Marv, go check ya bloody tyres! (for the XL or Reinforced lettering, correct speed rating etc)

[S4_marv]

That is why I mentioned the XL tyres and just generally what the tyres should be. All four tyres should be XL as well as the other specifications that have previously been discussed.

In my case, they were not XL, regardless of tread depth and it is that sole point which I got them on.

Marv, go check ya bloody tyres! (for the XL or Reinforced lettering, correct speed rating etc)

My car's currently 100 miles away, so I can't check it! That's half of the problem!

I have checked the specs of the tyres on my car online, and as far as I can tell, they're not XL, the speed rating is too low, and the load rating is too low.

Plus the fact that there were 3 Federal tyres and a Conti with differing tread patterns and depths.

First things first, I'm gonna get my car back from the dealer, then take up the issue of the incorrect tyres with Audi UK.

[micalee]

My car's currently 100 miles away, so I can't check it! That's half of the problem!

quote]

Good point, well presented!!

I agree, get the car back, take some pictures if necessary and make your phone calls. (I'm still bermused as to why they wont drive it? The tyres are still legal! - they quote they are dangerous, but if 1.6mm is legal limit which should tecnically be safe if above, then thats odd!

Anyway, its only 100miles away, get the thing back and pursue. I was turned away at the start, then they offered me a gesture of good will in as much as they would buy two tyres and I buy the other two, hit me with a load of big words, legislations, used car sales jargon, so I hit them with my bad boy letter and I simply got a phone call back saying that I must have got their previous email all out of context and they were happy to replace the tyres!

Email everything and ask for their response in email so you have documentary proof. PM me if you want assistance

[S4_marv]

Thanks mate. Just spoken to Audi UK, and all the (slightly confused) girl on the phone could tell me was that the tyres should be the same size, and on a Y rating. Nothing about the load rating or XL. I'll call back at another time I think to see if I get a different answer.

[PetrolDave]

as far as I can tell, they're not XL, the speed rating is too low, and the load rating is too low.

Then those are the real issues - an S4 MUST have XL rated tyres and tyres with a speed rating suitable for a car limited to 155mph.

[micalee]

Found this:

When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "Extra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.

And this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S4

B6 steering, brakes, wheels & tyres

The B6 S4 came equipped with electronically controlled variable assisted 'servotronic' power assisted (PAS) rack and pinion steering as standard.[1]

B6 S4 brakes[1] consisted of radially ventilated disc brakes front and rear. The front discs are sized at 345 millimetres (13.58 in) in diameter by 30 mm (1.181 in) thick, and are clamped by Continental Teves-ATE FNRG-60 single-piston sliding brake calipers. The rears are 300 mm (11.81 in) by 22 mm (0.866 in), and again use single-piston sliding calipers, with an integrated cable-operated hand brake mechanism. A Bosch ESP 5.7 Electronic Stability Programme system, complete with Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD), Emergency Brake Assist (EBA), Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) and Anti-Slip Regulation (ASR) - also known as traction control system, coupled with a dual-rate tandem vacuum servo provided the brake actuation.

Standard alloy wheels[1] were 'Avus-III' die-cast aluminium alloy, 8.0Jx18H2 ET45 in size, and shod with 235/40 ZR18 95Y eXtraLoad high performance tyres, being either Continental SportContact2 or Michelin PilotSport PS2.

Edited December 3, 2009 by micalee

[Tipex]

I cant help thinking that all your going to do here is wind up the dealer, and not receive decent service from then on.

It's not like you only had the car a few days, it's two months, if the tracking is out it could easily have worn the tyres down, you've only got to hit a pothole and it can knock the tracking out, buy 4 new tyres, get it tracked up and have done with it!

[micalee]

I had my tyres changed because they were the wrong ones and felt they would be dangerous. Since Audi replaced them, I have still received the same amount of service. I admit that if you went back to the same dealership as you are disputing with, future relations would be different, but as in my case, I purchased the car from a dealership 250 miles from where I live, so never need to go back there again.

Just my opinion, as yours is yours

[S4_marv]

I cant help thinking that all your going to do here is wind up the dealer, and not receive decent service from then on.

It's not like you only had the car a few days, it's two months, if the tracking is out it could easily have worn the tyres down, you've only got to hit a pothole and it can knock the tracking out, buy 4 new tyres, get it tracked up and have done with it!

I agree with you to an extent, in that I've now realised that I've got no chance getting anything back for the tyres having worn more than I'd expect. From the dealers' point of view, there's no way to know that I haven't been driving it like an idiot (although the spare magically losing 2mm is a bit strange!).

However, once I've got my car back, I am considering pursuing the fact that my car was shod with incorrect (I believe) and mis-matched tyres.

I'm in a similar situation as Micalee, in that this dealer is 100 miles away from me, so it's not going to be my first port of call for queries. Plus I've noticed MUCH better levels of service from my local dealer (Yeovil).

[Milo]

I admit that if you went back to the same dealership as you are disputing with, future relations would be different

Not always the case. I rejected 2 cars in 3 months and was a complete pain in the arse and still use the same dealer for everything. I have found them to be superb and I drive past another Audi dealership on my doorstep to use them, doing an extra 30 miles every time.

If I buy another Audi they'll be my first place of calling.