Chelsea Mick Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Does anybody know the Law (for a fact) reagrding towing another vehicle with a solid tow bar? My Son is 21 years old and has held a full car license for 3.5 years. He was stopped today and given a fixed penalty £60 fine and has to surrender his license for 3 points to be added :mad: The offence (according to the Police) is for "Driving otherwise than in accordance with a license" (Or words to that effect as his handwriting is shocking) He was towing his friend along an "A" road, back to his house as he had broken down. My Son has a VW Passat Estate and was towing a Vauxhall Vectra I can't find a definate answer online :confused: Any accurate help would be most grateful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I can't see what the offence is to be honest. So long as it was a solid bar, and not a tow rope, and he's out of his probation period so I'm not sure what the offence he's supposedly committed is. Check his driving licence entitlements, as us guys with older licenses have many more entitlements than newer licenses, I know towing a trailer is included in that so perhaps it's under that? Best place to ask would be the Peppipo forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 From a non-legal perspective... but as someone who holds a post 1997 licence. I assume this is something to do with the towed car being over 750kgs or the combined weight of car and towed car being over 3500kgs. Not entirely sure how this applies to towing cars on bars, but it has caused me some headaches when looking at moving non-road legal cars from one place to another - my licence doesn't let me tow any reasonable sized car on a trailer due to the weight restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpongpo Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Check this out... The driving licence you need to tow a caravan or trailer : Directgov - Motoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi... "An exemption from the driver licensing trailer limit allows a category B licence holder to tow a broken down vehicle from a position where it would otherwise cause danger or obstruction to other road users" Likely to come down to what your son told the officer he was doing. Suggest your son has a chat with a lawyer specialising in traffic matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaddiction Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 steve2 said: "An exemption from the driver licensing trailer limit allows a category B licence holder to tow a broken down vehicle from a position where it would otherwise cause danger or obstruction to other road users" Would this mean if a car broke down in the middle of the road and the OPS son towed it a few meters the side of the road to enable traffic to pass, he's exempt... How ever if he towed it for a few miles it's not just moving into to prevent danger or obstruction. It's moving it to a place that's convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 As stated this is down to young 'uns not being allowed to tow, I've done the license but have previously towed (a policeman) on a straight bar for a couple of miles without knowing it was technically "towing", which I could have been done for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontyslapper Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Me and the FiL are forever towing various vehicles from place to place. Tend to do it during quieter times - sundays or damp evenings - using a bar and a borrowed set of trade plates. Furthest I've been the 'towee' is about 12 miles and about 15 as the 'tower'. Touch wood, never had any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 If you passed your test before 1997 then you won't have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4ttm4son Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 What's the difference when using a rope instead of a bar then? Or is rope now complete FAIL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 It's illegal to tow with a rope, it's deemed to be more dangerous for some reason. I can think of several times back in the day where if I'd been being towed with a bar I'd be a dead, or a vegetable, as being able to snap the rope can save you when the person towing has either forgotten he needs at least a 2 car gap to pull into, or is just a complete nutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpongpo Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Is it really illegal to tow with a rope now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontyslapper Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If its illegal how come you can walk into Asda/Tesco/insert random store name and buy a bright yellow tow rope 'endorsed' by the likes of the AA or RAC!! Just a thought - surely the instrument needed to carry out the task would be on the 'illegal' list of saleable items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Looks like a myth: DVLA: Quote In the event of a breakdown, be aware that towing a vehicle on a tow rope is potentially dangerous. You should consider professional recovery. UK Police Online forum: Quote The law has not changed - it is ok to use a rope for towing. No one has said to the contrary Plus, of course, the ultimate authoritative source... Yahoo Answers Quote It's not illegal. This is from the Police National Legal Database:"When the vehicles are attached solely by a rope or chain, the maximum distance allowed between the vehicles is 4.5 metres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Interesting, can't think where I read it was illegal now, but it would seem it was bollox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Mick Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks for all your input guys My Son phoned DVLA Tuesday and was informed by them that his license does allow him to tow another vechicle as long as the MAM is not over 3.5 tonnes and the vechicle being towed does not exceed the towing one's weight. His VW Passat Estate weighs 1500kg and the Vectra 1300kg As far as we can see he was withiin the law doing what he was doing. The arresting officer also admitted at the time he wasn't 100% sure of the law for this as well What he intends to do now is to visit the local Police station, inform that he will not be paying the fine or surrendering his license for endorsment. Then obviously fill in the correct form to attend court and plead not guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Mick Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 P.S Thanks to Steve2 for putting it up on PH as well. Very helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby_simon Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Chelsea Mick said: Thanks for all your input guys My Son phoned DVLA Tuesday and was informed by them that his license does allow him to tow another vechicle as long as the MAM is not over 3.5 tonnes and the vechicle being towed does not exceed the towing one's weight. His VW Passat Estate weighs 1500kg and the Vectra 1300kg As far as we can see he was withiin the law doing what he was doing. The arresting officer also admitted at the time he wasn't 100% sure of the law for this as well What he intends to do now is to visit the local Police station, inform that he will not be paying the fine or surrendering his license for endorsment. Then obviously fill in the correct form to attend court and plead not guilty. And claim costs :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Mick Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 scooby_simon said: And claim costs :-) That has been mentioned... They had to get a recovery vehicle to get the stricken Vectra to it's final destination as they wasn't allowed (wrongly) to continue with thier journey. Wrongfull arrest was mentioned as well but I have little faith in our legal system right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Would it be worth calling the police station the officer is based at and speaking to him? Ask him exactly what offence he is alleging they have committed, as you've looked into it and cannot see where he did anything wrong. The likelihood is that he may just cancel the ticked and save a lot of time and hassle taking it to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Mick Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Chelsea Mick said: Thanks for all your input guys What he intends to do now is to visit the local Police station, inform that he will not be paying the fine or surrendering his license for endorsment. Then obviously fill in the correct form to attend court and plead not guilty. Tipex said: Would it be worth calling the police station the officer is based at and speaking to him?Ask him exactly what offence he is alleging they have committed, as you've looked into it and cannot see where he did anything wrong. The likelihood is that he may just cancel the ticked and save a lot of time and hassle taking it to court. Thanks Tipex What I should've said was that he intends to visit the Police station where the officer is based. Which happens to be the local one I knew what I meant anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeDesmo Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Chelsea Mick said: The arresting officer also admitted at the time he wasn't 100% sure of the law for this as well But he nicked him anyway? :confused: We've all heard the line (used by the law) that' ignorance of the law is no defence' then surely ignorance of the law from a Police officer is both incompetence and inexcusable. What next?, stopped for walking on the cracks in the pavement because it might be illegal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Maximum Authorised Mass is NOT what the vehicles weigh, it's what they are allowed to weigh. For example I used to tow my Octavia (1300kg) with a trailer that weighed 690kg, so 1990kg. Towing limit of my Vito was 2000kg. Perfect. However, the trailer MAM (weight of trailer itself and allowed payload) was 2500kg which makes it an illegal combination regardless of the actual weight on the trailer. Even if empty. The case here is weight of the Passat on the VIN plate (1500?) and MAM of the Vectra which is likely around 2000-2200. So check those weights and see if your son was under mate. You might be in luck but I have a feeling it'll stand. It's still very harsh though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Mick Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 The latest..... Today (Thursday) we went to two Police stations and the local DVLA office. First police station. Front desk civilian (Not very helpful older type person) went off to check (for 2 minutes). You're nicked Son Not happy, off we toddle to DVLA. Very helpful front desk clerk and manager. Printed off form INF30. Yes your license allows you to tow another vehicle up to MAM of 3,500 kg. Second (different) Police Station same drill - civilian. Very heplful young enthusiastic person. 20 minutes later comes back. After much research, yes you are allowed to tow another vehicle, provided MAM...etc, etc... I suggest you get in touch with arresting officer. Here's what shift he's working and contact details. :D Brilliant! Gets home officer starts at 11pm tonight. Phone the number at 11:05pm... Officer in breifing will phone you back... Oh dear... as if 15 minutes later said officer phones back Explain INF30 over the phone. Officer will go and check and get back to us.... yeah yeah.. What-ev-errrrr 40 minutes later knock on the door said officer is standing there "I've got egg on my face" he says... Things are looking up He agrees it is a very fragmented point of the law. He has made some enquires and is waiting conformation of his (our) findings. Unfortunately for us he is now offshift until next Tuesday. He has assured us that he will let us know the findings and if we are correct will tear up the ticket. According to all the web pages we have viewed, the Passat is slightly heavier than the Vectra by average 20kg with a total of no more than 2700kg Maximum Authorised Mass (The officer agrees that the MAM in this case isn't an issue). For now.... time to relax and enjoy the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Great result !! Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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