Which 4x4? Touareg, ML or X5?

[Biscuits]

Thanks! I've got a mate who has a 4.8is which is lovely, and from what I've heard the box etc is rock solid. The only downside of the x5 is that it doesn't seem to be that big. Or is that an illusion? I specifically need enough width for two full size baby seats and room for a passenger in the middle.

We get three in the back regularly. One full size ISOFIX, one booster and one 14yr old

[Pincher]

Have you checked the boot size on an X5, ccompared to say, a 5 series estate? You might be surprised, especially if you need to get lots of 'stuff' in.....

[Biscuits]

Have you checked the boot size on an X5, ccompared to say, a 5 series estate? You might be surprised, especially if you need to get lots of 'stuff' in.....

True, 5 series touring has a very good boot.

(Pincher: hello mate )

[drpellypo]

Yip, huge, but not wide enough. I wanted a 7 series L because they are so unbelievably cheap for what they are but not wide enough. I think you've convinced me X5 guys.

[drpellypo]

MrMe - was the X5 you speak of new, or an older model? I'd be looking at approx 2006 for my budget. It's interesting you say yours was fine in snow as my friend also said that (who lives up the road in consett) about his 4.8. That's a 2002 model. But everywhere on the Internet says they are rubbish in anything other than dry Tarmac. The Treg however seems to be a sure footed 4x4.

[NewNiceMrMe]

Latest model, the outgoing car. 2011 in our case with the 4.4 litre Twin Turbo petrol engine. 408 bhp and 0-62 mph in 5.2s. It was a seriously swift car for something so big. 600 Nm of torque too.

If I think a car is crap, whether I own it or not, I'll say it is. I can honestly say the X5 murdered the snow and we had only a little less than you'll have had over the last 3 years.

MrsMe's X6 replaces it, this Sunday (well it's in the country and is scheduled for delivery on 1st September).

Edited August 26, 2013 by MrMe

[Calm Chris]

Bet the a/wndontblook like that now. Slightly off topic, what engine is Mrs Me having in the x6- have you converted her to tractor fuel?

[NewNiceMrMe]

The X5 left us in very good condition indeed. The individual Champagne Merino trim was a major factor in it going before the X6 arrived.

Basically, we negotiated the X6 deal on the same day I bought the 5 series. However, we couldn't quite get to where we wanted to be so I signed for the 5 series and we then received a call from the dealer the next morning. They asked if we could go back in (as they do). The offer they put to us was that they'd do a deal if they could have the X5 straight away.

That was because they had a buyer within the group who had been specificaly looking for Deep Sea Blue with Champagne Merino. Ours was specced up to the hilt with the DVD system, cherry walnut trim etc and he'd said he wanted the car - but only if it could be his by the end of the month. This was in mid-April. So they offered us what amounted to £1,750 more than we'd have been prepared to deal at. That meant we'd not have a car though, but the initial delivery for the X6 was mid-June. They couldn't give us a courtesy car but we could hire one for £500 and still be £1,250 better off than we'd thought we would be.

Then the news hit (after a few shorter delays) that it'd be September delivery. At that point the dealer offered to give us a courtesy car (because we said we'd cancel the order if we had to hire a car for longer). So MrsMe has been driving around in a brand new (800 miles on the clock) 318d M Sport since then.

We've gone for the X6 40d (3.0 litre twin turbo diesel). It offers the blend of performance and economy we wanted this time, and she never wants the same car twice so the X5 was ruled out (plus she didn't want to wait for the new one and the new X6 is still 2 years away).

In all we got around 19% out of the 5 series and 17% out of the X6 (and again she's specced it up to the eyeballs although we've left out the DVD system and the individual trim this time). The X5 in 50i form returned around 20 mpg throughout its life (35,000 miles in less than 3 years). It was an immense car with costs to suit. The list on her spec was £69k and we didn't get massive discounts at the time although the deal was still good by comparison to what I'd heard others getting (about 1.5% more discount than what seemed the norm). Tyres are to be factored in on the big wheels and big engined models - they were £1,460 a set on the car but in 35,000 miles we only needed 1 set and we replaced those a little early in retrospect (I reckon there was 4,000 or more miles still in them before they got anything like near the limit but she said she could feel the difference so we changed them).

We had a few engine issues with the 50i that the dealer struggled with, and that engine loves drinking oil too. The car went into limp home mode 4 times in the last 6 months we had it, and into the dealer every time to fix it. It was that which prompted us to think about changing sooner (we'd planned on changing in 2014) and the opportunity to make big savings by buying two cars at the same time was too good to miss. The dealer probably thought they were going to lose us to Audi too, because we opted for an A1 for our eldests new car (and a superb car it is too) so we used that in the negotiating as well - even though I found Audi completely unprofessional in aftersales compared to BMW.

We've specced the third rear seat for a bit more practicality in the X6 and she then ticked just about every other box barring individual and the DVD stuff. I'm looking forward to it arriving.

Back on topic though, the X5 is a superb car. It doesn't drive like any other 4x4 we tried (Q7, Discovery, XC90 etc). The Mercedes ML is a good car too though and I found the dealers were very good. A bit scripted in their sales patter for my liking, but in all they were probably the most professional of all.

[drpellypo]

Thanks for that MrMe. The reason I asked was I wonder if BM have sorted their xdrive system since the earlier e70's. loads of people on the interwebs saying they are really poor in the snow.

But then again everyone said the multitronic in the A6 was a grenade with the pin pulled out but it's still fine at nearly 200k.

[garcon magnifique]

The thing is, any X5 on winter tyres is going to be better than a 2wd car. Yes there are better 4x4s with more sophisticated systems, but how extreme do you really need it to be? It's worth compromising on off road ability you'll rarely if ever use for better road manners you'll always appreciate.

Try and find one on 18s if you can, 19s at most. Winter tyres will be more easily available and a lot cheaper!

Had a look on Autotrader. There are some very tidy looking X5s out there for the money.

[cabby]

I'd also recommend the X5 1st generation and would rate it as perhaps the best all round car i've ever had (downside for me was that ours was a lemon!!). Running costs won't be low so worth checking tax + insurance.

Cars with lighter coloured interiors are rare but look great and avoid the usual germanic doom and gloom inside. Quite a few of the later 1st gen. cars also have the panoramic sunroof which is great option + lets tons of light into the cabin. This one looks like it would have been a good buy Used BMW X5 D SPORT AUTO EXCLUSIVE EDITION NAV TV for sale - PistonHeads (Ref 1612623).

[drpellypo]

Yes that's a valid point actually. The snow we get up here can last for 8 weeks or more but its been relatively passable in the A6 with snow tyres. My mates 4.8, he says, had no problems with run flat 20's!

[Biscuits]

If you're looking at the Mk1 X5, it's worth knowing that the very last of the 30d MSPORT models came fully loaded but most importantly have the twin-turbo diesel out the early 535d's..!

I'd still say the Mk2 X5 (E70) is the better car. More frugal, iDrive, etc.

[Twinspark]

I was mega impressed with the X6 I passengered in a few months ago. They don't half shift and handle for such a big car.

[drpellypo]

Biscuits, what year is that? Doing a search for Msport x5's brings up nothing on autotrader. Just the new ones.

[Biscuits]

Biscuits, what year is that? Doing a search for Msport x5's brings up nothing on autotrader. Just the new ones.

Found one on the BMW AUC site ! I now recall they were the 'Le Mans Blue Special Edition" 2006 model. Buying from an AUC dealer would be my preference for the 12 month warranty... vital on this kind of car when buying used IMO.

BMW UK: Approved Used BMW | Car details

That one doesn't have NAV, but to be honest, that's a GOOD thing. The old Nav is shocking and a £100 TomTom or iPhone is a million times better. I'd fire them an email asking for a print-out off the BMW database for the cars build spec. I'm 99% sure the Sport Edition came pretty much fully loaded out the box. If it has bluetooth and Harman Kardon HiFi it's a cracking car. 286bhp :D

Edited August 27, 2013 by Biscuits

[NewNiceMrMe]

Indeed, not having Nav on an old generation X5 is no bad thing. The latest system is incredible, but the older systems were slow and inaccurate (and at £1,600 for parts alone to replace the Central Information Display module - i.e. just the chipset behind the screen, not something you want going bang on an older car).

[drpellypo]

Had a good chat with my friend who owns the 4.8IS. I'd lusted after his engine but discounted it due to running costs. However we've sat and worked out figures and based on my mileage I'm only looking at extra £10 a week, with that engine, in fuel compared to the 3.0d. Makes the 4.4 or the IS a very sensible (kinda) choice as it's massively cheaper, and the difference can be left in a 'self warranty' account. Also much much lower miles on the petrols. As low as 40k and well below budget!

[Ian_C]

£10 a week difference - you sure - that only equates to approx half a tank difference a month - you must be doing tiny mileage!?

[NewNiceMrMe]

That does sound very small indeed. Even if you were going down the independent or self-servicing path it'll not be a car that'll run cheaply unless on very low miles.

[eldavo69]

Remember it's still a £50-60k car when things need doing though. We had both front wishbones needing replacing and arb connecting rods. £400-ish in parts there. Also had a new DIS under goodwill but an hour's labour to fit and code.

We saw about 25mpg from the 3.0d too.

There's not much economy difference between the 3.0i and 4.4/4.8i engines though.

[drpellypo]

I am Ian. Like I say, this car won't be a daily driver. Parts/repair cost I'm not worried about. If it breaks, it gets fixed. That's a risk you take. Suzy has a 194k A6 which she's had for nearly three years with the word gearbox, worst engine etc for repair costs and it's been fine.

[drpellypo]

Remember it's still a £50-60k car when things need doing though. We had both front wishbones needing replacing and arb connecting rods. £400-ish in parts there. Also had a new DIS under goodwill but an hour's labour to fit and code.

We saw about 25mpg from the 3.0d too.

There's not much economy difference between the 3.0i and 4.4/4.8i engines though.

That's the same with any car though. A friend has just spent £800 on fixing suspension on his 02 Zafira! I never really worry about servicing costs to be honest because its just part of ownership. The nicer the car, the more expensive it is to keep. Not buying it for this reason is kinda like not buying a bigger house cos the mortgage is more.

[Ian_C]

I am Ian. Like I say, this car won't be a daily driver. Parts/repair cost I'm not worried about. If it breaks, it gets fixed. That's a risk you take. Suzy has a 194k A6 which she's had for nearly three years with the word gearbox, worst engine etc for repair costs and it's been fine.

Sod fuel economy then! Sounds like you are in a similar position to me - I'm doing 5k a year in the S4, 1k of that is Le Mans. No daily rush hour commute through town. Buy something fast and fun! My biggest issue with a stonking massive 4x4 is that they aren't exactly rapid for the horrific fuel economy they return - although I imagine the 4.8 X5 is pretty fast!!

[NewNiceMrMe]

The nicer the car, the more expensive it is to keep. Not buying it for this reason is kinda like not buying a bigger house cos the mortgage is more.

But isn't that the point? If you've gone to the trouble of working out it is going to cost £10 more to run, then it does matter? I don't get the analogy, but more to the point I don't quite understand how we've gone from it costing X amount more to run and then servicing costs not being a factor?

If they're not, then brilliant.