Housekeeping / Rent v Man boy

[Arch]

  shao_khan said:

Yeah but I think other than Pete, you must be next closest to Pension

Cheeky bleeder. I'm still in my late teens*

*mentally

[CarMad]

I'd say get him to pay an amount but not X% of his take home pay. What he gets paid is his business but what you want to charge him is yours. So agree a figure and if he goes out and gets paid more then he keeps it.

I paid a contribution for food, but not the roof over my head and my parents saved what I gave them up and basically gave it back to me when I left. I didn't know that they were going to do this but their lesson that nothing comes for free certainly helped and I never resented the money but I was a little miffed at first.

[Pincher]

  Milo said:

I thought that when I saw you just after you'd picked up the R32

Of course, the upside is that neither of us look as old as Mr. Me

[Milo]

Tapatalk like thing.

You should see him now, he's like Des Lynam but without the sporting knowledge.

[NewNiceMrMe]

Listen to you, Bob Wilson.

[Mort]

I will probably face the same situation with my kids. I'd be inclined to make it a compulsory saving scheme which can go towards bigger items he might require (in my case my son could contribute towards the cost of his motorbikes)... and if not that then towards a deposit on a house or something. Spoil your kids while you have them I say....

[theduisbergkid]

Of course he should be paying something ! I can't think of a single valid argument why he shouldn't.

[NewNiceMrMe]

  theduisbergkid said:

Of course he should be paying something ! I can't think of a single valid argument why he shouldn't.

I can - because I don't consider my children need a 'valid argument' not to pay to live at what is their home.

Each to their own. I'm simply saying I know I'm far from the only parent who doesn't like the idea of charging my children, however old they are, or working, to live under our roof. Equally, I respect the opinion of those that decide they want to do so if they think it is the only way they'll teach financial responsibility in independence. Personally, we simply feel we can do that without charging 'board' (or whatever people wish to call it).

[Scotty]

A bit of poetic licence in that post MrMe. I don't think any one has said it's "the only way they'll teach financial responsibility". It's just one part of the whole picture for those that choose it.

[NewNiceMrMe]

Fair point Scotty, I shouldn't have used the word "only".

[chody]

I was allowed to keep my first wage then had to pay although my parents did need the financial support and I never felt hard done by,so I say if you dont take any keep then cut him off and let him pay for his own phone ,ect.... at some point you wont be there to help him out, he needs to start learning to stand on his own feet

[drpellypo]

I paid mum and dad £160 a month from being 16 to 23, when I moved out. I realise now that I was being fleeced as a 16 year old, but percentage wise, did very well at 23! I had saved up a deposit for a house in that time, which my mum and dad were pleased I did, so probably why they never put it up.

[Calm Chris]

After the New Year I'll be having words.

He has been earning £250 after tax now for about five months, after New Year it will be six months. So far he has spent his hard earned on tattoos £850, a iPhone 5 bought for £450 and appears to have done the rest on woman, weed and booze.

I could have accepted no rent, but given his lack of interest in any form of contribution such as helping cook, wash, wipe, tidy, clothes washing, hanging clothes out etc, etc, etc. it has to change.

He is still dreaming and living the home life of a child, but with the advantages of earning and being unencumbered. Taking the best of both worlds. My plan is simple- son you either move out by July (22 birthday) or you buy in to the family thing and start contributing via effort towards the house and some finance to us.

Our energy bills are a modest £100-£120 a month, he turns things like the ch back on and let's it run over night. So he will be told to pay all energy bills which will likely mean he starts remembering to turn lights and heating off.

[E-bmw]

I would be in the 'of course he should contribute camp' and put it all aside for him as others have suggested, but not tell him.

 

Then one day when you tell him why he has a large lump sum available he will realise what a MASSIVE help you have been to his financial learnings.

[Waylander]

Has Mrs Calm now come round to this approach Chris?

(technically that should read "Has Mrs Chris come round to this approach Calm?" I guess....)

[Calm Chris]

Sort of...

Mrs calm was an abandoned baby, found in a box outside a shop and adopted by people that were over loving. She like to apply the same mantra to our children.

Daft things like Xmas presents. She insists we spend the same on both children, whereas I feel the boy should have less because he has income to spend. So daughter has £300 worth, so does the lad. We discussed that and she accepts that this Xmas will be the last even present v cost situation.

She also accepts that giving can be taken advantage of, and that the lad will (as anyone does) will take, take, take unless the reins are pulled. It's not meant to sound mean, but he does need his comfort bubble popping.

[NewNiceMrMe]

He has £250 a month after tax.

 

So he is working, there's a sign he is no idle waster.  To take from that would, in my opinion, do little but to create a mindset of resent.  It did with me. 

 

Our eldest, on her internship, comes home with 4 times that - but we still don't make her pay board.  I don't see the point.  We don't need it and I believe there are other ways of educating on value, work ethic (which he is demonstrating) and self development.  She enjoys an incredibly privileged lifestyle with us paying for many other things - but she knows that.  Our mantra is to give her the best start in life possible, but I'm puzzled as to why everyone seems to think that must always be at the detriment to any acknowledge of effort, what they'll need to do on their own in future and that it must always build a culture of 'take, take, take'.

 

Those in favour of board all seem to be taking the view that it is the main, or only, or a major factor in, teaching a child the value of money.  Why is it? 

 

Why would you want to do such a thing 'comfort bubble popping'?  So he's spending £850 on a tattoo and yes I would agree that is something I might find difficult to swallow.  So I'd speak to him on that.

 

I agree giving can be taken advantage of and when we've seen signs of it we have had severe words with our eldest.  Even our youngest will be told 'no' on occasion when she wants a £0.69 iPhone game - because it is good to teach the word of 'no' at times.  I don't like doing it, but on occasion we will. 

 

I sometimes think we're quick to judge younger generations and can often be harder on our own than any others.

 

You could be dead tomorrow.  Would you want to go out resented by your son?

Edited December 17, 2013 by NewNiceMrMe

[Andrew]

I think the main bug bear for me in the situation Chris paints is the lack of interest/respect in doing anything around the house. That would get my goat but perhaps because I came from a house of lazy feckers (my Bro and Dad) who I rarely saw do any housework. My wife now doesn't do any either, but that is because I do most of it, leaving a bit for the cleaner to do (which isn't done to my standards anyway).

 

I respect MrMe's opinion though and he paints a very good argument for not bothering with asking for rent. Do your kids (Chris of the Tyne) help around your house? I expect Corps values to be instilled and admin and dhobi to be squared away as a first priority.

[NewNiceMrMe]

  On 12/17/2013 at 1:56 PM, Andrew said:

Do your kids (Chris of the Tyne) help around your house?

 

I think our youngest is too young to expect her to do much.  She is told to tidy up after herself, she makes her own bed, stuff like that.  It doesn't mean we still don't get the odd moment when MrsMe screams at her (I just run), and that reinforces what we expect.

 

Our Eldest doesn't do a great deal at all if I'm to be honest (but read more before responding to that).  That said, she does her internship during the day and is then generally doing her Uni work on a night.  Not every night, but quite a lot (there seems to be quite a lot of intern-work related modules to do).

 

Her bedroom is a tip.  We don't touch it.  That's up to her.  She looks after her possessions, she's just unable to pick any item of clothing up.  It is a medical condition, apparently.  After a while she'll get sick of living in a shithole of a lovely bedroom and she'll have a purge before stuff walks out of the door of its own accord or she needs things washing.  What doesn't help is that she appears to have seventy eight billion items of clothing.  This means it can take a long time before a purge is required.  I suspect this comes from her affliction to buying something new instead of washing it.  Yes I'm joking, but her room is a dump with clothes even though she looks after all her other possessions. 

 

So...

 

She washes most of her own clothes.  She also irons most of them - as they are never ready to be put in the twice weekly ironing collection (an external service).  Plus, the one time she did put things in...we got a £74 bill because she'd filled 6 bags or whatever.  So that was stopped.  That's the way we deal with it - if something is done that we don't like, we'll stop it at the time.

 

She treats the house like a hotel much of the time.  But, and here's the thing, is it her home as well as ours.  She's not a stranger, or a lodger, or someone we see we need to lecture constantly.

 

We will not be here forever.  She will make mistakes in life and she will bloody well learn from them.  We will simply make the journey to self sufficiency slightly easier.

 

I had nothing as a child in respect of financial aid from my parents.  I don't think it made me work a second harder than I did or do now.  All it meant was I had less to start with.  I had friends who had wealthy parents - and guess what?  They've made successes of themselves too.  Just because someone has an easy upbringing doesn't mean they are destined to fail in life.  They are much better off than I am, because they had a much better start in life.  The point being, in some ways not everything is relative, yet in other ways, it is!

 

Ultimately, if they mess up all the privleges and head start in life that we've given them, what the feck can we do?  Nothing.  We'll be dead, buried and gone.  Their problem.  I will have gone away in the knowledge I did my utmost and I'll not know how good, bad or indifferent it all turned out when they're 40, 50, 60, 70 or whatever.

 

Most people would look at what we've given our kids and think we are stark raving mad.  I am well aware of that.  I think we just have different perspective on what works and what doesn't, and that doesn't mean I'm right either.  It might all collapse around our ears whilst we're still here for all I know. 

 

I do not want them to resent us (I hated, and hate is the right word, my Father with a passion), hide purchases, mask the way they live their lives and go out and become jealous or envious people.  I've seen envy, it isn't nice.  As it stands they've nothing to be jealous of in others and have perhaps been on the receiving end of jealously and certainly of inverted snobbery (more through schooling than anything else, and even then those that pass comment on it as children are usually just voicing their shallow parents views that they've overhead).

 

I would have loved to have had a new Audi at 21 and no debt.  I've done reasonably well in life, though I could have done better - but what could I have done with that kind of start?  I'll never know.

Edited December 17, 2013 by NewNiceMrMe

[Calm Chris]

No silly ( Mr Me) on a base week he takes home £250 pw, on a good week £300.

Since work started he has got worse, not better at the contribution thing, as he is an adult at what stage do you decide they no longer require sponsoring?

At what stage would you expect them to accept a house / family system or move out and live by their own system?

[patently]

Seems to me that MrMe's kid makes a contribution, in terms of washing, ironing and (sometimes) tidying, which the Me family thinks is reasonable given her high workload. 

 

Meanwhile, CChris would like his kid to make a contribution that is reasonable in view of his workload.

 

Am I right?

 

Strikes me that this is an argument between people who would like to be generous to their kids, and people who would like their kids to contribute to the family workload.  But it isn't either/or.

[Mook]

If someone's sharing a house with you and they're old enough to understand the importance of sharing responsibilities in the house as part of running it, they should do some of the work, no matter how small.  Starting at age 4 I reckon.

 

By 9, they should be doing all the vacuuming, washing and ironing and by 10 they should be doing all the washing up as well.  None of this modern dishwasher machine rubbish.

 

Bloody kids.  Kick their feckin arses and take all of their pay off them and give them £10 a week as beer money.  That'll soon learn the little bastards...

 

Or something

[NewNiceMrMe]

I should make it clear our Eldest doesn't do all her own washing.  Just 'most' of it and I may be being good to her there (MrsMe might well disagree).

 

Don't think this is some kind of happy democracy.  It isn't.  There is ample screaming and tellings off, whinging, complaining and general home life where kids (be they of adult age or not) are concerned.  There are times I want to strangle her.  There are times I'd just like her to not leave her bedroom light and TV on all day - when she's not in.  Is it really worth the hassle of constant lectures and arguments though?  To be honest, I am more interested in living my life and enjoying it!

 

I have long been of the opinion that children are much more of a 'household issue' from 13-21 (and ongoing) than at any other time. 

 

The interesting thing is that CalmChris mentioned the words 'moving out'.  That's what we don't want.  We would not welcome it.  She has a long term boyfriend (3 years or whatever it is now) and the last thing we want is her shacking up with that toerag or even on her own.  I'm not convinced (read that as 'we') she's ready yet and I am also reminded of the words of many a friend who said they think their kids moved out too young at 17-23 or whatever age they were. 

 

Sorry I misread the earnings element but even then I don't think it makes any difference.  He's working full time then, or thereabouts, and not part-time as I wrongly presumed.  Isn't that even more of an indication that he is on the right track?

 

Please don't think there aren't times when I sit down and think they have it easy.  Of course I do.  But I don't want them thinking of me what I did of my Father.  I don't think I did much at all around the house.  Probably almost nothing.  I'm being honest.  However, I've already said (much earlier in this) that he wanted to take a huge amount (proportionately) off me.  We were on the slippery slope of mutual disdain for a long time before then (mainly because I didn't want to live the life he wanted for me, of being a tradesman or whatever, or tinkering with cars or other stuff that I got had no interest in whatsoever).  I had no issues with paying board by the way, I just didn't see why he took such pleasure from removing every penny possibly from me (I can still see him smiling as he told me, and waiting for me to get paid so he could instantly ask where the board was).

 

The other thing I say is in relation to this word 'sponsoring'.

 

I sponsor people on runs.  People I don't know and people I do know.

 

I don't sponsor my kids.  I consider it a pleasure to help them through life.  One day I'll not be able to - and maybe I'll be penniless and need some back.  I would be reasonably confident I wouldn't have to ask.

 

p.s. above all else, I'd say just do what you feel you need to.  You know him much better than any of us ever could.

Edited December 17, 2013 by NewNiceMrMe

[Andrew]

_{I hope he didn't charge you board while you were at CTC? Or was that a means of escape? Some escape!}

Edited December 17, 2013 by Andrew

[Mook]

  On 12/17/2013 at 4:16 PM, NewNiceMrMe said:

I sponsor people on runs

 

 

Shït - do I have to just do running now?  You're spoiling my fun