Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thing is, he was given a 6 year contract. However... that would have had performance clauses in it. I'm sure it's no coincidence that these stories have come to light today - the day after 4th and Champions League qualification became mathematically impossible. It looks highly likely there was a clause that he'd walk if he fell out of the top 4. Which he has, so he has to go. Let's not forget that, under UK employment legislation, you can be fired within the first 2 years for no other reason than your boss not liking the colour of your socks. He was appointed into a role beyond his capabilities, that much is obvious. I'd fully expect questions to be asked if I were to be appointed head of BP retail tomorrow, for example - and would expect many people who've worked with me to tell me that it was a bad appointment and it was all going to come falling down around me. They'd be right, too - as I don't have the skills or experience to do that role, and probably never will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP27 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Suspect you'll both have to agree, to disagree on this. ManU are a brand and for that, I can see where TS is coming from - the business is struggling under this Manager and for whatever reason, his contract and performance will rightfully be reviewed, possibly with terminal effect. For me, I see the players having a collective responsibility too and they seldom appear to get enough of the 'negative' spotlight, compared to the Manager for my liking...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm not going to try arguing. You make it up as you go along to suit your dislike of him. The analogy of yourself becoming whatever it is, well that is completely ludicrous. You have zero respect whatsoever. The man has kept Everton top 6 for most of 10+ years he's been there and had zero money. Let's see how Everton do under Martinez next year. That's the test. For a start - his loan signings won't be staying. A year can be done, in whatever direction, be it success or failure, by anyone. Continuing or changing it is what matters. Moyes has been treated appallingly, by you and by a minority of others. If he is sacked and his successor enjoys success, you'll be saying how right you were. But the difference is, his successor will be handed up to £200 million to spend. As I said above, I'm ashamed today. The club has joined the mass ranks. That's what you and your cohorts have achieved. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP27 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 He's not been sacked yet!!! Are we saying that Mata and the other chap with the bushy uncut hair have been purchasing flops? Are we saying that with a decent purse, Board and Supporter backing and a favourable wind, Moyes can and should stay? On that basis, would the ManU Supporters, the Season Ticket buyers and the Glazer family run with this? Just asking, 'cos I don't know the answers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 The analogy of yourself becoming whatever it is, well that is completely ludicrous. Not really - it's an example of someone taking a job that's the same as what they're currently doing - but much bigger. Some people will thrive after such a 'promotion', others will find they've been given a role beyond their capabilities. You brought the comparison of starting a new job into this - and I've just expanded on that. If I were to be taken from what I do now, to do the same thing on a national level for a rival operator... I'd fail. I know I'd fail - the people around me know I'd fail. That's exactly what has happened to Moyes - only he didn't seem to realise his own limitations. He's a solid and dependable manager who did well with limited resources at Everton. But that doesn't mean he could ever make the step up to challenging for titles and European glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 He's not been sacked yet!!! Are we saying that Mata and the other chap with the bushy uncut hair have been purchasing flops? Are we saying that with a decent purse, Board and Supporter backing and a favourable wind, Moyes can and should stay? On that basis, would the ManU Supporters, the Season Ticket buyers and the Glazer family run with this? Just asking, 'cos I don't know the answers! Mata was a good signing... only we already have decent players in that position, so it was really a bit of a wasted investment. Sideshow Bob has been a complete disaster. As generally predicted. I wouldn't trust him to spend £200m wisely. That's if £200m is available - but he's already blown £70m on players we didn't need, so I couldn't see any more being released for him to waste. It's a purely business decision - the club has deals based on minimum performance expectations - and if sponsors are making noises about falling short of these expectations, then you have to look at how you are going to meet them in the future - because there's big money at stake. Moyes got my back up right from the start by sacking the people who knew how to be successful - and brought in a load of yes men from Everton to replace them. If he'd have kept Meulensteen, Phelan etc., then he may have had a chance... and supporters would have been more likely to give him a bit of slack. On the other hand - if he'd kept them, he wouldn't be where he is now, as they'd have ensured a top 4 finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP27 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 TS - two good Posts, as replies/clarification of what has been posted before. I feel for Moyes but if the Board do decide to take terminal action against him, as a non footie person, I can ultimately see why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Not one bit. When I ranted, it was due. There are many more matches I didn't rant about, as well you know. I must have missed those. I've only followed about 99% of the games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I must have missed those. I've only followed about 99% of the games this season. And about 10% of my posts on them by the sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torino101 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 His biggest hurdle always seemed to be gaining the respect of the players. He never seemed to achieve this. That's a bit of a sad reflection on a bunch of guys being paid so handsomely to play a sport, that they don't try their heart out come what may, but still the sad reality is that they at least seemed on the face of it to only ever be putting in 60% for Moyes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I have to say this is extremely un-United like. "will be sacked"; "likely to be sacked"; Man U "silent" on Moyes. The news should have been "Moyes HAS been sacked" and until them we should not have heard a peep. I am genuinely surprised and disappointed in this - all so uncertain and unclear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Waylander, nothing about this is unusual at all. The club has always had a policy of never commenting on rumour or gossip. They are maintaining that policy. It is completely in line with standard club procedure at United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think his replacement should be chosen via an X-Factor type show. Let the circus continue at the Manchester Red Sox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ah yes, the original circus acts are become worried attention will be deflected from yet another season of hilarity with their Headbutt Hooligan and Mad Mike clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 David Moyes has been made 4/1 favourite to be the next Newcastle United manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldavo69 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Once he passes the initiation test of punching a horse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 S'pose it could happen. He'll be wanting the challenge of a big club, after a disastrous few months with a minor North West outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm going to take the long view on this. If Moyes is indeed sacked, and if this is a Glazers decision, then I believe it will signal the beginning of the end of their ownership of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP27 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Why is that Garçon? .........because they will judge that they'll never make more from a Sale in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Because it will split the club and there will ultimately be sufficient pressure to force them out. It could take time but when it happens it won't be a day too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm going to take the long view on this. If Moyes is indeed sacked, and if this is a Glazers decision, then I believe it will signal the beginning of the end of their ownership of the club. I don't see it as that. I have been listening to a very interesting, and entirely feasible, view on it. That's not to say I agree with the decision (because there is little doubt now that it is simply a matter of when they announce it). It is this: Moyes was set targets, as is any manager. They are reputed to have included the defence of the league, winning the Champions League, winning a trophy, etc. However, there is also said to have been a minimum target - and that was Champions League qualification. Yesterday, it became mathematically impossible for that to happen. That has meant the club will fire him. It was, supposedly, the only achievement based criteria under which he could be fired. He is said to have known this and that all he did yesterday was put on a very brave face - but that he knew it would mean it was his last match in charge. Thinking about that, it does actually add up. That's why I don't think this will do anything in respect of signalling the Glazers wanting out. It was simply a minimum target regardless of who became manager. I think it is shallow and lacks foresight. However, as we appear to be on the verge of him being sacked, and a new manager being appointed, then that leaves me only one thing to say (and I'll say no more on it until any further news breaks): Whoever is appointed, from wherever, I shall support their position as manager of Manchester United. Because that, and not petty personal preference, is what a manager requires from fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 If it's a performance based decision that the entire board agree with (including Charlton and Ferguson) then so be it. However if this is the case, why the silence, surely it'd be cut and dried and announced properly today without the embarrassing farce we now face. The only reasons I can immediately think of for this delay are a deafening silence from across the pond or a disagreement at board level. The fact it has been leaked might also suggest some discord. There are no circumstances under which Glazers will want out, they have too much money to make out of the club. If they are to go they will need to be forced out, or made an offer they can't refuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 P.S. If Champions League qualification was a minimum requirement, I'd love to know who set that requirement and who agreed with it. Because frankly as a minimum requirement it was ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 They never make announcements on a weekend or public holiday though Garcon, and never have done. It's just the usual club policy kicking in. I would be amazed if a formal statement wasn't released tomorrow, probably at something silly like 7.30am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 P.P.S. Suggestion that an announcement is being delayed until after the final bell at NYSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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