NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 P.S. If Champions League qualification was a minimum requirement, I'd love to know who set that requirement and who agreed with it. Because frankly as a minimum requirement it was ridiculous. Agreed. Ludicrous pressure to put on him bearing in mind whose shoes he was being asked to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Or an entirely reasonable target based on past performance and stature in the game? I would suggest it is at least partially based on sponsor expectations, too. Edited April 21, 2014 by Twinspark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 You know what? There are times I wish I wasn't such a fan. Or that I could wish something on us that I can't. Because... I'd wish relegation to the Championship and beyond if it meant we could get rid of fans like you. I really would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Unbelievable. You really have let the blind loyalty to Moyes and 'doing things the United way' cloud any kind of reasonable judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 No, I have faith in any manager that leads the club. But more than that, I shall never understand anyone who sets out to undermine a manager of the club they purport to 'support', before a ball is even kicked. That is blind vitriol and never in the interests of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP27 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 But that's the issue MrMe - ManU and the like are no longer a Football Club - they are a worldwide brand and therefore, all sorts of entities want to express their opinion, rightly or wrongly. Asking an honest Question - what do all the loyal Season Ticket holders want to happen - keep Moyes or kick him out? The guys who pay all that money and attend every home Match should really have input on this - tell me, what are the faithful who regularly support ManU thinking........? . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 So... if we were to appoint Iain Dowie, he'd have your full support - despite the fact that history suggests he'd get us relegated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Yes. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in anything other than giving anyone at Manchester United my complete support. I'll tell you why - because to do so gives a chance of success. Whereas to lambast them before a ball is kicked, is of nothing but detriment to them and the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Yes. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in anything other than giving anyone at Manchester United my complete support. I'll tell you why - because to do so gives a chance of success. Whereas to lambast them before a ball is kicked, is of nothing but detriment to them and the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well, that's your prerogative. But it's complete and utter insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Chelsea game tomorrow. If Moureen wins the CL, it will be with an 'inherited' team won't it? A bit like the line he threw at Benitez when he won the CL with Inter. I'd laugh if that came back to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Or an entirely reasonable target based on past performance and stature in the game? I would suggest it is at least partially based on sponsor expectations, too. Ask a Liverpool fan (if you can find an honest one) what their "stature" has been worth for the past 23 years. Come to that what was United's "stature" worth for 26 years before 1992? How does a club attain "stature"? I'm not even sure I know what it means. When Arsenal and Liverpool fans refer to "stature" it seems to be a quickly fading memory of a time gone by when trophies were won. If stature is history then I don't care about it. I care about potential and the next trophies, not the last ones. It's as relevant as an Oldham fan referring to their "stature" as a Premiership club based on a three year adventure in the early nineties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 P.S. Ian Dowie was Oldham's best manager of recent times, I'll have you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well, in this context, we're talking about a club that has been present in the Champions League since the 1995-1996 season, that has won 5 of the last 7 Premier League titles and hasn't been outside of the top 4 since the early 90s. I'd say with that history, it's entirely reasonable to set a minimum expectation of top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 SAF's first years in charge: 86-87 - 11th 87-88 - 2nd 88-89 - 11th 89-90 - 13th 90-91 - 6th 91-92 - 2nd Moyes: 13-14 - 7th (possibly 6th, but unlikely) Prior to SAF taking over - we'd finished 4th, for 3 years running. So the difference between 4th and 11th (his first season in charge) is 7 league places. How ironic is that? The difference is that now the league is vastly more competitive - and boards are vastly more fickle. Including ours, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Now you just sound like a typical Liverpool fan, TS. Football has no respect for history. Edited April 21, 2014 by garcon magnifique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Football has changed. Back in the 80s, a team like Coventry or Wimbledon could rock up with a half decent manager, a few cheap but decent players, and finish top 6. Could that happen today? - no, it couldn't. At the very worst, this side should have finished top 5. But, let's face it - the squad is better than Arsenal's, Everton's and Tottenham's... so yes, setting a top 4 expectation is absolutely reasonable. The modern game has drifted towards establishment - big teams will maintain their status, with major investment needed for teams outside of the establishment needed to gatecrash the party. It's absolutely not comparable with Liverpool, or any other team of the late 80s. It's also not right to draw comparisons with SAF - he had a job getting 11 sober players together on a Saturday and tore the club apart to rebuild it from the foundations. If Moyes had come in, kept the coaching team, and gone for continuity, then he wouldn't be looking at his P45 this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 It could also be argued that Moyes had no chance with the success of SAF to follow, the players not wanting any 'but' SAF, and the fact comparisons would always be drawn (unfairly). The similarities are there. However you look at it, SAF was given the time and money. Moyes hasn't been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Football has changed. Yes it has. And very much for the worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Truth be told I think both "camps" are trying too hard to justify their stance whereas it lies (IMO) somewhere in the middle: It was a team in need of a revamp and overhaul; the manager needed time to bed in. He started off badly and so needed 'more' time to correct that mistake and build his team ergo he should (IMO) have had another season or as a minimum until next Jan BUT you cannot blithely ignore that he has been poor - the team was jaded and his performances against the teams above him not very good at all - something you lot laugh at Spurs about. SO - by all means feel aggrieved it was a poor decision but remember it is the CLUB you support that are getting shot of him so I'd have thought the "support the club" bit cuts both ways too and you should also be big enough to consider "you might have turned out good but current showing was not up to par" Fergie's early tenure was with a middling club really for many many years but one at the crest of the success wave (albeit potentially on the decline without a revamp) so the comparisons are not really fair either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Wonder what the % split is between Utd fans who thinks it's right/wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Each will think the other lot are in the minority. To be fair the OT crowd have been excellent in supporting him (probably better than the players!) but it comes back to "So what - the Club feels he fell below the expectations set of him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well, I think the match going fans have been exceptional in their support AT THE GAMES. However, away from the stadium, there has been a snowball of opinion that says he was under-achieving and needed to be replaced. MrMe and Garcon will point to the forums as being nonsense, filled with kids and giving a voice to idiots - but they're still a barometer of opinion and whilst RedCafe were neutral at the start of the season, the balance has tipped in favour of dismissal now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm intrigued to know what SAF will do now. I imagine he's mighty pissed off, if it is true. I could see him walking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Why? Not like he never bought a duffer in his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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