NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm just wondering how long it will take MrDenial to admit that Moyes was the worst appointment since Woy got the Liverpool job. I won't, because it isn't true. You're wishing failure on United because you support "that" other "club". So that's that. Look, they have been victim of some awful decisions in the last 3 games. If you can't see that, then you're blind. The penalty awarded last night was shocking and you can see that on as many TV replays are you want - the tackle was outside the box. It was not a penalty. We played quite strongly in the second half and I fail to see what anyone else would do differently. They dominated possession and our only failing was the one that matters - putting it in the back of the net. But the fact is we've not got our two main strikers. They're both injured. What else is he meant to do? He even brought Hernandez on to try to address it in the last 5-10 minutes. Other than that we had Welbeck on the pitch. I just don't see you ever giving me any idea about how you'd do things differently? Then you have the fact that ultimately this is a first leg game. 2-1 means very little. Sunderland won't be as lucky (and they were, very) again and we'll get to the final without any real issues in my opinion. I don't even know why I'm trying to explain how I feel. You're not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torino101 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 It does smack of 'people who live in glass houses' when Man U are bitching constantly about ref decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Only an absolute idiot could look properly at United's predicament and lay the blame solely on David Moyes. Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a lot of idiots who call themselves United fans. "Manager out" is the default reflex reaction of the football moron. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M8CKN Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 "Manager out" is the default reflex reaction of the football moron. Is like blaming a car accident on the passenger and not the driver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torino101 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Is like blaming a car accident on the passenger and not the driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) It does smack of 'people who live in glass houses' when Man U are bitching constantly about ref decisions. See, you say that Torino but have you actually looked at what is being said? I have no qualms about saying the disallowed goal was offside - although it really was incredibly tight and could have gone the other way. Nor do I have an issue saying Rafael was rightly sent off against Swansea (and that cost us the draw). Or that the Welbeck penalty incident was 50/50 (but there was contact, and again it could have gone either way). However, the other decisions against Spurs were bizarre. One blatant penalty and a yellow card given to Januzaj on the edge of the box when he was clearly bulldozered off the ball and it should have been a free kick. Then you look at last night. The penalty came from a tackle where contact was made outside the box. The referee didn't even give it - the linesman did yet he had a completely obstructed view! Moyes is feeling very hard done by and I don't blame him one bit. I don't think it is bitching. I'm quite happy to admit we've not been playing particularly well, but we were all over Sunderland last night and they know they've got away with a very lucky result indeed. Vidic only came back last night. Evra has been out. RVP has been out for over a month. Rooney has missed the last 2 games. Phil Jones has been out for over 2 weeks (just when he was starting to put in some excellent performances too). Rafael had only just returned from injury. Nani, as much as I hate him, has been ruled out for ages but he does give us options when he's around. Fellaini has been out. I don't like him either and wouldn't have bought him, but none of it is helping with selection. Ashley Young, another player who had started to show good form, is out with injury as a result of the Lloris 'penalty' incident. There will be those who question training methods, but most of these are injuries picked up in matches. Moyes has had some terrible selection issues to deal with. The guy is the right man for the job and I still don't understand what other United fans want or expected. You lose the greatest British manager in history and all will just continue being perfect? No, that was never going to happen. There are those screaming the name of Kagawa or for Moyes to splash the £100m he has been given to spend. But Kagawa has only ever put in one decent performance. Then, who did we spend the £100m on in January? As I said previously, there's only a few players I think he'll target and it is very doubtful any of those would be available this month. They'll only sell if someone like City comes in and throws ridiculous amounts of money at a club, as they do. I still believe we'll get a Champions League place. I still think we'll win the Capital One cup if we have a good day (we'll get to the final, I have no doubts about that at all). If that happens, I will be extremely happy. If we don't get a Champions League spot then we will next year. If we don't win a trophy, then so be it. It is very easy to forget that Ferguson had a few trophyless years - but apparently Moyes isn't allowed those. It is utter madness from a small (and it is small, the majority of United fans are supporting Moyes) minority of glory supporters who just don't understand football. Edited January 8, 2014 by NewNiceMrMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ref decisions always balance out though. Can any Utd supporter honestly say that they're more harshly treated than other team? It's just that every time Utd lose, the ref was at fault. I think it's highlighted more because Moaning Moyes ALWAYS picks up on it post interview. Do you think RVP and Rooney would consider leaving if they didn't qualify for CL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ref decisions don't always balance out. That has been shown to be the case god knows how many times. Yes we have been on the end of some horrendous decisions recently. I'm not arguing before that. It is the last 3 in particular that have savaged us. Of course RVP and Rooney would want away if we don't qualify for the Champions League. Without doubt. I don't see it happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ref decisions don't always balance out. That has been shown to be the case god knows how many times by Howard Webb alone at Old Trafford in United's favour. EFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I don't think I'm going to look in this thread after tonight's semi-final I saw 16-1 quoted but I'm not sure if that's the predicted score or the odds 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I saw 16-1 quoted but I'm not sure if that's the predicted score or the odds Seriously ... I can't see West Ham scoring that many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I think it'll be tight tonight. About 4-0 to City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Kris Akabusi (awoooooooga) rang into talk sport today laying into his team, West Ham. What he said rings true for Man U too. Stop making excuses for the players/manager. They are professional sportsmen, getting a good wage for doing a job. Back them. It's not the ref's fault, it's not the grass, it's not alignment of the planets etc. Blaming a team's poor performance on missing key players is negative (he was on about West Ham/Carroll). What message does it send out to the other players? You're crap because Carroll/RVP/Walcott etc etc is out? I tend to agree. Blaming the officials for a string of bad results is as weak an excuse as blaming the kit man for putting too much starch in the wash. Every team has runs of good/bad fortune, just get on with it. The problem with Man U is they haven't had a run of bad fortune or bad results for such a long time, a lot of the fans can't get their heads 'round it (or have never seen it) and they don't realise what a laughing stock they look to the rest of the footballing world, with their whinging. And in West Ham's case, the tired 'if Carroll was fit' line is boring. Ditto the 'if RVP was fit' and the inevitable, 'if Walcott was fit. I do believe it's the done thing to end these posts with, "rant over". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Fergie himself summed it up nicely. Massively paraphrasing, the point he was trying to make amounted to "sh!t happens". He recalled when United lost 5-0 to Newcastle, 6-3 to Southampton and then 3-1 (I think) to Chelsea. The BBC ran a story about the demise of a once dominant force... "We won the weague [sic] by nine points." Teams have runs of bad form, whether you put it down to luck or not. The important factor is the professionalism of the manager, coaches and players in getting themselves out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 That's all well and good but... Look, I'll not bother. Moyes is the right man for Manchester United now, tomorrow and in the future. Stand by a manager and you'll win trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Oh and... I do find it quite incredible that any genuine United fans thought SAF would go and all would be sweetness and like. This is the poisoned chalice. For Moyes to even take the job is a statement of the balls the man has. Nothing like this level of success has been followed in the past, anywhere in the world. You take a club from winning the odd domestic FA Cup now and again to dominating a league for 20+ years, reaching 4 CL finals and winning 2 (only to lose the other 2 to possibly the best team ever to play the game), and that's without even mentioning the other trophies! But Moyes took the task on. Give the man the support he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 But Moyes took the task on. Give the man the support he deserves. I think he's doing a great job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 And a load of money, even if he fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 How is it balls to take it on? He was in a win-win situation. Massive pay-rise by moving from Everton - and if it all goes belly-up (as it is), he will always be able to hide behind being SAF's successor. The division in United fans is astonishing - there is my side, where we really didn't want Moyes and feel he's done nothing to change this opinion - in fact, with the way he's playing games, the feelings of him being totally wrong for the club just grow stronger. Then there are those who are following the SAF line 'support the new manager'... and finally, you have those who are now even blaming SAF for the side he left behind! It's absolutely astonishing. It's easy to say it's refereeing, luck, injuries etc., - but I've always said you make your own luck. If you're pressing in games and creating chances, you tend to get the breaks on decisions - how many times have people pointed to the number of home penalties United used to get? - but they never took into account that most of the on-pitch action was around the visitor's penalty box. As for injuries - there's quite a lot of noise coming out about the archaic training methods now employed - he's running the players into the ground to improve fitness levels, but seems to be breaking them in the process. But his biggest crime remains the total and wholesale replacement of SAF's team - allegedly he was advised this would come back to bite him, too - just how much respect does anyone think Phil Neville has? - he's cringeworthy at times - patting players on the head when they're subbed - especially when he's doing it to players who've vastly exceeded his achievements. I could forgive SAF's last few years of grinding out results - because that's what he was getting - but Moyes is delivering awful football without results. He looked completely devoid of ideas last night - and was a withdrawn and defeated looking man sat in the dugout - when he should have been up on the touchline pushing the team on. Giving Hernandez all of 5 minutes (plus injury time) was never going to turn the game around - he should have brought him on as soon as we went a goal down. Trouble now is that the season is nigh on over - unless by some miracle he can win the Champions League. Our league points so far and games remaining point to a real struggle to push past 70 points - and that won't be good enough for a top 4 - and may even not be enough for a top 5. I can't see the board sanctioning any real spending this transfer window, as they can't be certain they'll want to keep Moyes come the end of the season. It's depressing, as Maureen really wanted the job - he was nearly on his knees begging for it at one point. Yet we decided he wasn't a 'United' manager - he was seen as too short term. But he'd have won stuff - and attracted a better calibre of player than Moyes can. He may have only lasted a few years - but he'd have carried the club through the post-SAF transition, meaning his replacement wouldn't have been handed the poison challis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Does Tipex have a twin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I very much enjoyed reading that post, TwinSpark. Very honest and without prejudice. No Moyes worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 How is it balls to take it on? He was in a win-win situation. Massive pay-rise by moving from Everton - and if it all goes belly-up (as it is), he will always be able to hide behind being SAF's successor. The division in United fans is astonishing - there is my side, where we really didn't want Moyes and feel he's done nothing to change this opinion - in fact, with the way he's playing games, the feelings of him being totally wrong for the club just grow stronger. Then there are those who are following the SAF line 'support the new manager'... and finally, you have those who are now even blaming SAF for the side he left behind! It's absolutely astonishing. It's easy to say it's refereeing, luck, injuries etc., - but I've always said you make your own luck. If you're pressing in games and creating chances, you tend to get the breaks on decisions - how many times have people pointed to the number of home penalties United used to get? - but they never took into account that most of the on-pitch action was around the visitor's penalty box. As for injuries - there's quite a lot of noise coming out about the archaic training methods now employed - he's running the players into the ground to improve fitness levels, but seems to be breaking them in the process. But his biggest crime remains the total and wholesale replacement of SAF's team - allegedly he was advised this would come back to bite him, too - just how much respect does anyone think Phil Neville has? - he's cringeworthy at times - patting players on the head when they're subbed - especially when he's doing it to players who've vastly exceeded his achievements. I could forgive SAF's last few years of grinding out results - because that's what he was getting - but Moyes is delivering awful football without results. He looked completely devoid of ideas last night - and was a withdrawn and defeated looking man sat in the dugout - when he should have been up on the touchline pushing the team on. Giving Hernandez all of 5 minutes (plus injury time) was never going to turn the game around - he should have brought him on as soon as we went a goal down. Trouble now is that the season is nigh on over - unless by some miracle he can win the Champions League. Our league points so far and games remaining point to a real struggle to push past 70 points - and that won't be good enough for a top 4 - and may even not be enough for a top 5. I can't see the board sanctioning any real spending this transfer window, as they can't be certain they'll want to keep Moyes come the end of the season. It's depressing, as Maureen really wanted the job - he was nearly on his knees begging for it at one point. Yet we decided he wasn't a 'United' manager - he was seen as too short term. But he'd have won stuff - and attracted a better calibre of player than Moyes can. He may have only lasted a few years - but he'd have carried the club through the post-SAF transition, meaning his replacement wouldn't have been handed the poison challis. I'm not going to reply to all of those because to be honest I think most are incredibly fickle. We are 5 points off a Champions League place, but you think we'll struggle to get a top 4 finish? And the season is nigh on over? We have 18 games to play! Have you even thought about how ridiculous that sounds!? The love you have for Mourinho is incredible. So go support Chelsea! He was never a United manager. Never will be. How you can show such lack of support (and let's not try to say it is just now, you've been hammering him from day one) astonishes me. You continue to will him to fail. You also blow hot and cold, because it was only 4 games ago you said maybe his message was getting through to the players! Luke, this isn't about Moyes worship. To say Twinspark has written it without prejudice is hopefully sarcastic! It is the type of prejudice he writes, entirely against Moyes! Archaic training methods? You have no idea about the training methods! Fiction, completely and utter fiction and rumour! Just like it was when you said RVP wanted out! You have no idea what RVP wants! That rumour was quashed by the player himself. He felt so strongly that he came out and said he wanted to continue playing with Rooney at United because he felt they could go from strength to strength! But no. If a newspaper even so much as suggests disharmony, you'll gladly act as a bandwagon to carry it further if it meets your (and the other minority - because it is a minority) aim of getting rid of Moyes. I give in. You won't be happy until he is gone, however it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 OK, we're 5 points off the top 4. Do you honestly think we can score 5 points more than Liverpool over the 2nd half of the season? - given that they have a significantly easier run from now on? - we've got no hope of challenging City, Arsenal or Chelsea for the top 3 positions. I had a little wavering when we strung 3 games together - but then we took a big leap backwards once we came up against decent opposition again. And this was decent as in 'just been completely destroyed by both Liverpool and City'. There's no doubt Maureen would have been a good choice. I don't like him, and his footballing can be tedious at times - but he's a proven winner and a proven winner who wanted the job. You really need to take off the red-tinted glasses and look at the harsh reality of the situation. It's entirely possible to want the best for the club, but not support the current manager. That's where I am right now. Moyes is breaking all kinds of records this season - unfortunately, they're all the wrong records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinspark Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Just to add - on current form, we're on for 65 points. That won't get us into the top 4. Even if we go on a storming run and win *every* remaining game this season, we will fall short of last season's total. If we finish the season accumulating points at the rate we did last season, we'll scrape to 76 points. Which will probably just get us into the Champions League next season. Whichever way you look at it - it's not looking good, as the first scenario is much more likely to happen than the 2nd or 3rd. Could you really, honestly, say it's acceptable to finish the season on 65 points, 24 fewer than last season? - I'd say that's an unmitigated disaster, and would absolutely guarantee the sack at any club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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