NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 If Corney has gone then I am genuinely saddened by that. I still can't imagine what made him think this was a good route to go down in the first place, but if he's gone then it is the worst end possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP27 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I go back to what I said earlier - an educational and lively Thread on TSN - but I leave it thinking the whole debacle is a huge mess for everyone.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have no inside line on this but I strongly suspect it was another board member who approached Corney, possibly having been approached himself by the PFA. What I don't understand is why Corney didn't dismiss the idea out of hand as soon as he heard it, whatever his personal view of the rights and wrongs of Evans seeking employment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I give in now anyway. My thoughts won't change until he gives a full apology and admits what he did, wins an appeal, or takes a lie detector test to prove what he's saying is true (something you'll find he is never going to take because it has been suggested to him many a time as I understand it). Edited January 8, 2015 by NewNiceMrMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 It's an interesting contrast with the Lee Hughes case. Some may remember it was Oldham who gave Hughes the opportunity to return to football after he had served time for causing death by dangerous driving. Those who remember the case will recall how despicable and cowardly his actions were at the time of the offence. However he showed absolute contrition and remorse on his release, which proved an important part in many accepting his return (there were still many who objected to it). On that basis alone, it seemed right to me that having made a terrible mistake, paid the penalty and demonstrated the key requirements for rehabilitation that Hughes should be given the chance. However there is another dimension. Think of this from the viewpoint of a potential employer. An applicant's character is a vital element in their attractiveness as an employee. Is there anything in that character that could create a problem for them and you in the future? Can you ever really trust someone who killed somebody through drink driving and then ran away from the scene, or who seemingly can't understand that what they admit they did was not only utterly morally bankrupt but also rape? I mean trust them enough to employ them? I'm not sure I could and I doubt I'd be able to continue my career with a rape conviction. Many will say that we all make mistakes and can learn from them. I just know that despite the contrition and remorse, I met Lee Hughes enough times to realise he was a nasty character with a mental age of about 9 who would inevitably (and ultimately did) show himself and the club up and leave under a cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why would he take a lie detector test? This isn't the Jeremy Kyke show. If they were as accurate as the JK show would like you to believe, then the results would be admissible in a UK court, and they are not, he has nothing to prove to anyone else so why would he do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why would he take a lie detector test? This isn't the Jeremy Kyke show. If they were as accurate as the JK show would like you to believe, then the results would be admissible in a UK court, and they are not, he has nothing to prove to anyone else so why would he do it? Why wouldn't he? He's adamant he didn't do it. He could dismiss a mass of the doubt in an instant. What has he got to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Because it wouldn't help his appeal in any way whatsoever, and the courts are the only people he needs to convince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why should he apologise and show remorse? It is not part of his punishment. Many people will only 'show' remorse for the benefit of getting back to normal or for a lesser sentence. However, Ched has served (half) his sentence. He is out now and cannot go abroad, so as with other convicted criminals, needs to get back to work. Football is his work. Let him play football. Nasty character or not many other people go and start again after serving time. Jermain Penant and Lee Hughes spring to mind who have done time and have continued to play once released. No one bats an eyelid about them anymore. There will be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 With respect to the feminist comments they come from the woman who started the campaign IMO. I've listened to her on R4 several times now and her comments and points very quickly move away from the victim and toward what he stands for and the money he gets and elitism that men stand for. The person a few days ago that was up against her said the same in the interview. Her comments denigrated into just attacking the money more than anything and she lost a lot of credibility in what she was trying to stand for the more the interview progressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why should he apologise and show remorse? It is not part of his punishment. It is an important part of rehabilitation, particularly from such a violent crime. However I don't believe this is the most important factor in this case. The two most important factors are that he continues - even in today's statement - to protest his innocence, and that there is an ongoing judicial review into the conviction. Until he either clears his name or accepts the conviction I don't see how he can expect to continue his life and career, particularly when that career is in the public eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 OK, I'm not in a position to say anything about the supporters. I did say that I'd completely understand them withdrawing their support if the club went ahead. The club listening to its supporters is understandable; I'm sceptical that that's the true cause, but have no contact with the world of football so can't say either way. But the radfems have grabbed this issue, and I assure you they are utterly misandrist and 100% insane. That's not to say I have any truck with misogyny, I categorically don't. However, I've had discussions with some of these women, and they have to be heard to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why should he apologise and show remorse? It is not part of his punishment. Many people will only 'show' remorse for the benefit of getting back to normal or for a lesser sentence. Indeed, at least this way we know what sort of character he is, assuming of course he doesn't win his appeal. And if he does win his appeal, there will be a lot of people who will suddenly go quiet rather than praising him for steadfastly sticking to his story inspite of the option to take the easy way out by just saying a few empty words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I know plenty of Oldham fans who would have walked away if Evans had been signed and I know them well enough to know these aren't empty threats. The strength of feeling was many times what it was when the club signed Hughes. And most of those fans are male (admittedly in a hugely male demographic). I agree about and have heard the radfems jumping on the bandwagon. Unfortunate but inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) And if he does win his appeal, there will be a lot of people who will suddenly go quiet rather than praising him for steadfastly sticking to his story inspite of the option to take the easy way out by just saying a few empty words. Knowing some of the details of the case, if he did win an appeal it would, to me at least, be a legal technicality, i.e. an appeal court has decided that what happened didn't strictly meet the legal criteria of rape. Yes I suppose that would legally clear his name, but it wouldn't change the fact that what he freely admits he did was absolutely morally repugnant and still leaves a very dark stain on his character. Edited January 8, 2015 by garcon magnifique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'll tell you something. There isn't half some fúcking sh!t about all this on Twitter. Oh, and if Corney hasn't quit I expect this could also signal a low point in relations between the club and the local paper... which seems to be a running theme with clubs Mike Ashley is in some way involved with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Yes I suppose that would legally clear his name, but it wouldn't change the fact that what he freely admits he did was absolutely morally repugnant and still leaves a very dark stain on his character. True. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I'll tell you something. There isn't half some fúcking sh!t about all this on Twitter. This and the Paris incident have shown the dark, unsavoury and uneducated side of Twitter over the last few days. Perhaps more than ever before. I certainly don't remember seeing the sheer volume of downright offensive, and in many cases illegal, comments ever before as I did yesterday. Edited January 8, 2015 by NewNiceMrMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm not sure what is legal on social media any more since it seemingly became an offence to be offensive. Just in case, I'll keep my latest thought in here: Things I wish for: 1. Simon Corney doesn't leave the club. 2. Barry Owen does leave the club. 3. Ched Evans disappears into obscurity and his girlfriend leaves him when she finally realises he'll never earn 10 grand a week ever again. 4. In a terrible yet somehow darkly ironic accident Gordon Taylor is crushed under the wheels of the Liverpool FC team bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I was about to mention Taylor. If he doesn't resign tomorrow, I'll send an email asking why. His comments are a disgrace and insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 True. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it OK Indeed, if all the clubs say 'you know what, you're an arsehole, and you have no future in football' then that's fine. What's not fine fine is them saying 'we want to employ him, but these loudmouth idiots speaking on someone else's behalf are making it too difficult, sorry'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 But as a business owner you have a very difficult path to tread. It's something we've seen in the aftermath of the Paris shootings (clearly an event on an entirely different level). Do you stand by a principle of freedom of speech and action, or do you protect your staff against credible threats of violence and worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busby Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I'd feel the same about him if he was any of the professions or trades listed above. As I've said plenty of times now, read the evidence. It is a complicated case with a mass of contradictions on the side of the defence. Ultimately though, he was convicted and he refuses to acknowledge his crime or apologise for it. I wouldn't want him working on my house as a bricklayer and I wouldn't want him playing for a football club I supported. Other criminals that have rebuilt their careers in football have acknowledged their wrong doing. That is entirely different. You can look at the case a million times and based on the evidence of just the night porter you'll find 99% of the population would come to conclusion there is no way in this world the girl consented to sex. Unfortunately, people don't look at the case. They just look at the aftermath and think he has been harshly treated. Absolute bollocks. Why does the career make a difference? He's not legally precluded from resuming his career as a footballer so I don't see where the issue is. If people want a law that says unless people say sorry they can't go back to work after committing a crime then they should campaign for that rather that hounding this guy. I'm not saying I like the guy or not and my views on his case and the merits of the evidence are completely removed from what the issue is - he has served the time that the crown saw fit to hand down and now he should be allowed to carry on with his life. As a side note re the evidence then you can get differing views on that in scores of different places. The only way to have created a truly balanced view on things would have been to hear it in court each day like the jury did. I don't say that to be confrontational at all - simply speaking from experience of time spent in courtrooms. Edited January 9, 2015 by Busby 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Do you stand by a principle of freedom of speech and action, or do you protect your staff against credible threats of violence and worse? Well, one is a short term imperative and the other is a long term imperative. So you do both, as best you can. And it's easy for me to say that because I've never had to make that particular decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Why does the career make a difference? He's not legally precluded from resuming his career as a footballer so I don't see where the issue is. If people want a law that says unless people say sorry they can't go back to work after committing a crime then they should campaign for that rather that hounding this guy. I'm not saying I like the guy or not and my views on his case and the merits of the evidence are completely removed from what the issue is - he has served the time that the crown saw fit to hand down and now he should be allowed to carry on with his life. As a side note re the evidence then you can get differing views on that in scores of different places. The only way to have created a truly balanced view on things would have been to hear it in court each day like the jury did. I don't say that to be confrontational at all - simply speaking from experience of time spent in courtrooms. I thought I'd made it clear his career didn't make a jot of difference to me. However, to say it makes no difference at all is somewhat naive in my opinion. An accountant or solicitor, convicted of fraud, is going to have issues. The career makes a difference. A footballer, a person who is going to come into contact with lots of young females and, whether people like it or not, is looked up to by lots of young people, is going to encounter bigger issues with sex offences than, say, a mechanic. I just wonder if people realise how much involvement footballers have in a community and with youth. To say it is mad to look to them as role models is odd. They're not role models in the way you or I might deem them to be, but they are worshipped (and that isn't too strong a word) as icons by so many. They are looked up to. That does make it more difficult for them to resume their careers when things like this happen. Rightly or wrongly, the career does have an impact. It is unrealistic to think it doesn't (not directed at you personally, Busby. ). I'm going to leave this discussion alone now as I think it is becoming a little repetitive and I don't feel I can bring a lot more to it. My opinions on the subject are well known and they're not going to be changing. If his appeal succeeds, it'll be on a technicality as Garcon says. I still don't think it will. Edited January 9, 2015 by NewNiceMrMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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