Waylander Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 okay chaps, demonstrating my idiocy again: it says to use the conserver once a month after washing car with the shampoo first and then adding the conserver to the final rinse bucket - but if i do this wont it all come off when i chamois the car dry? or do i not dry the car after i apply the conserver-treated water to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 Are you sure you arn't using too much conserver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 i havent actually used it at all yet - after the repeat visit to the dealer 2 weeks ago [3 weeks since formal DB application to car] i was gonna do the first full wash/conserver today but weather got the better of me so will plan for saturday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Guess who's standing next to me? It's the south Eastern area rep from JewelUltra. So you can get it straight from the horses mouth... Two cap fulls of conserver in a large bucked of water. Use this as a final rinse and leather off. No need to rinse off the rinse with the conserver in it. You wont leather it off because the conserver it attracted to the existing paintsealant and will bond with it. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 superb, thanks can i ask another "paranoid" question: is there anyway of knowing whether ther dealer really did reapply the diamondbrite to the bonnet after the scuff repair? [i am just mindful that they did all the work in 90min or so and i was told it takes 4hours 1st time round... ] just a little irritation that whispered in my ear as i was considerring the conserver bonding with the original application.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 After a paintwork reapir, the SHOULD leave it for between 4 and 6 weeks for the paint to cure before applying a sealant or so conventional wisdom goes, although I have never actually seen any ill effects from doing this prematurely, except after applying allow wheel sealants after wheel refurbishment. so how can you tell if they actually bothered to apply it? Good question! I think that would take either an experienced and trained eye, or meter reading on gloss and paint thickness. Basicaly, your car should look pretty shiny, more so than before... but the same could be said if they just waxed it so there is no real way to tell for sure. I can tell by feeling the paint, but there is no real way to teach you that on a message board. so I guess you will just have to trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 fair enough. it looks as shiny [or not - due for wash ] as the rest of the car so i guess i will let this rest in peace! okay for my education then, if they HADNT redone the bonnet, then would conserver do any good on the bonnet [in the same way wax does] or does it just reinforce the sealant but has no effect on its own - if you get what i mean? i know it "builds up" the protection but what about areas which are bare of sealant - is it just an expensive rinse water? cheers for your input by the way mate - much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLiiX Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Riz1 - You got the Diamondbrite free if I remember for some reason that escapes me... It's just as well the stuff is not as magic as it says and from my experiance the best way to get the gleam on your car is to polish/wax the car with something else twice a year. Do not know if anybody else would back me up?? but I am sure their would be many people that feel the same as me. Diamondbrite is cheap stuff (and I mean cheap) the dealers just charge a lot as it takes about an hour to put on. (or thats how long it takes them! they just tell you it takes 4 hours!!!! Trust me! Put it this way - how much is a bottle of wax? £12 for a not bad one? and for the interior protection you could spen about £10 or so on that so that is really what Diamondbrite is doing anyway! Would certainly not say that it is any better! Remember to read you manual about cleaning your car - It says to use just plenty of water! Honest look yourself. It does say to use soap if you feel it is a must or something but...... Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 you cheer me up SPLiix, you really do waxing your wheels before you even get behind the wheel at the dealers, reading the manual about washing the car: you just persuaded me that i should do the same! yes...i do take your point but i just figured as i have it i might as well use the stuff i am given to make the most of it for as long as possible; after that if it isnt doing the job there is always wax but until then i wanted to give it a good go and understand the product too. and as Clean Image says, they really do seem to be a good company wrt replying to emails etc [has no bearin on the product but nice to see good CS] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 SPLiiX, Any time I try to answer a thread, I try to give an honest and unbiased opinion based on the facts, on science and on chemistry... And none of the bullsh1t that so many car cosmetic companies push out, or sales talk. I admit that for once, Diamondbrite is a product which we actually sell. But that doesn't cahnge the fact that I am willing to give an honest opinion on it. so what exactly is your problem with Diamondbrite? Is it the fact that it is actually fairly cheap and not good value for money, or that it doesn't shine as much as natural waxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 [ QUOTE ] so what exactly is your problem with Diamondbrite? Is it the fact that it is actually fairly cheap and not good value for money, or that it doesn't shine as much as natural waxes? [/ QUOTE ] cant get better value for money than free this is tricky cos i know it is rubbished alot here; sometimes by peeps in the business [so i gotta respect that], other times by peeps who have used it and didnt like it [likewise useful for novices like me and equally fair enough i guess] but mostly "just cos" which is always confusing. even a couple of valet places i have been to who dont sell it say that it is a fairly good product so i am happy to sit back, munch some popcorn and follow an discussion on it [mind you it doesnt seem to have offered much protection against the road chips i have acquired on the bumper in the past 2 weeks ] incidently dude going back to my hypothetical question - conserver on an "untreated" bonnet - no harm but no gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Ah, there is a simple method for avoiding stone chips... but you probably don't want to hear it, and I may offend a few people by telling you the secret. but the simple truth is, that if you want to avoid 95% of stone chips, you have to change your driving style. Did you know that when traffic cops pull you over they will have a quick look at how many stone chips you have. If you have a habit of driving aggressivly and tailgating you will have lots and so they are less likely to let you off with a warning. Insurance assessors also know this trick as do car dealers looking to see if a car has been thrashed. When you think about it, stones are pretty heavy, and as they are made of stone and not rubber, they don't bounce very high & when the soft tyres of the car in front lift a stone, it won't actually go very far. And stones certainly don't jump up onto your paintwork on their own. If you think about the ballistics of this, you will be able to work out where the danger areas are. If there were no other cars on the road, you would never get stones chips. They are caused by other cars, and the closer you get to other cars, the more stone chips you will get. People put stickers on their cars like, 'if you can read this you are too close', I have often thought it might be effective to print 'I hope you get stone chips'. this would certainly get people thinking. Distances link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 yeah that makes sense guess i'll have to temper that instinct! actually to be honest i think i got most of them over the weekend when i went to the RHS flower show and had to drive in the jungle [okay okay the fields ] to park as i had none [or at least no significant ones] before this..and that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Yeah well, there may be some truth in that, but it's not the whole picture. A truck caused a chip in my windscreen - at 50 kmh - from a remarkable distance - I never tailgate, and certainly never drive close behind these trucks. On my 6500 km journey through Europe I collected quite a few chips. I drove long and hard, but as said, never (well hardly ever) tailgate. You overtake cars as well, and that may be enough already. And sometimes you do wonder where it comes from. Empty road, you give it a little, and TSJAK, there you got another one... Makes one wonmder if there are bugs with hard hats out and about... Somehow it increases with speed, but I'm not entirely sure why (unless it's the damn' bugs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 actually you're not wrong. when i was last in pakistan a few years ago i was out driving around with my cousin in the mountains and we drove through CLOUDS of bugs [some of which were pretty big] so anyway we both wound our windows down and stuck a hand out as we pelted along to add 2 more kill zones. i have to say it bloody hurt so no wonder they manage to damage the paintwork too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Iv'e been waiting for SPLiiX to reply. But as he hasn't yet and I promised riz1 an answer, I'll say my peice. I have got to warn you that when I did chemistry at school, I somehow managed to learn how to melt, burn, blow up and otherwise destroy anything on this planet, but I did fail the exams and the finer points still escape me. So i'll keep things in broad laymans terms. If anybody with a phd wants to expand on my waffle... be my guest. So here's the low-down. When it comes to waxes and sealants, the main indredient is going to be either a natural ingredient or a petro-chemical type product, polymers and the like... in other words, Plastics. You may have heard that Carnuba wax is the hardest natural wax in the world... well it is. But it isn't nearly as hard as synthetic waxes. the problem is that synthetic waxes don't end up as pretty as natural waxes. so for a while now you have had three options... go for the natural products, go for synthetic products, or combine the two. Most products have been a combination, while some of the high end ones make a feature of being all natural. It's a trade off. Natural waxes are not resilliant or long lasting while synthetics generally don't give such a lovely shine. The generaal rule of thumb is, the more they shine, the less long they last. As extreme example of this, Transport 'hard wax' will last for years but looks like cream cheese, Show shine is as glossy as it gets but often lasts no longer than a day. The thing is, you can't improve on nature, but the synthetic waxes are being refined all the time. A good example is the investment that Meg's has put into the NXT range. anyone who has used these new generation of products will agree they are getting there. The reason these synthetic waxes last longer, so I'm told is the length of the molecular chains of the silicones, polymers and copolymers. If you think in terms of leggo, natural waxes are like the bricks with 2 nobs. while the synthetic waxes are more like bricks with 4,5, or 6. Obviously, they are going to be stronger once they join together. The main birthplace battleground is america which is the largest producer of chemicals in the world... we don't get nearly as much choice as they do. there has been litigation with the wax companies claiming that wax isn't wax unless it contains natural wax (and they have won). It's caused much debate, including much misinformation about a subject which is already surrounded in sales hype and old wives tales. Sealants are a natural progerssion of synthetic waxes and involved in this fight, if you can work out who is fighting who!!! As an expert recently said said:- "If you are confused about the definition and uses of waxes and sealants, you’ll be in great company. These terms have been thrown around and interchanged by the carwashing and detailing industry to the point that they are now homogenized, making them somewhat generic. Their individual meanings have been lost, diluted, confused and misused. What is a wax? Generally, wax is defined as a fatty acid ester of a monohydric alcohol. It is an amorphous, yellowish, sticky substance derived from animal and vegetable substances; beeswax; sealing wax. Wax is, as described, a form of a sealant. What is a sealant? Sealants are typically described as any organic substance that is soft enough to pour or extrude and is capable of subsequent hardening to form a permanent bond with the substrate, such as a painted vehicle surface. Most sealants are synthetic polymers (silicones, urethanes, acrylics, polychloroprene) that are semisolid before application and later become elastomeric." If you understand that, you are a better man than I. But because the chemicals in sealants are similar in chemistry to your paintwork, they bond with it instead of just sitting on top as a normal wax would. You may also have heard that your paintwork is porus? Sealants also have the ability to seal these holes. As holes weaken paintwork, filling them actually makes your paintwork harder underneath the sealant coating. At the end of the day, waxes and sealants are sacrificial coatings and don't last forver. This is why you have to re-apply wax every 45 days or so (a bit longer in our climate which doesn't get so much heat and sun). Sealants last months or years but With a sealant, those long chained chemicals attract like magnets and bond to each other very easily. so conserver is basically a weak solution of sealant. The sealant chemicals are pulled out of the solution and onto the existing layer of sealant where they neatly line up side by side.. so by the time you leather it off, you are taking off little more than water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 by way of a part two, I will adress the matter of cost. Some of these sealants are pretty cheap straight out of the box. But would you expect a bunch of chemicals to be expensive? You can't measure a final product buy the cost of the raw materials, If you could we would be buying Nike trainers for about £5. If your paintwork is scratched or dull, no wax or sealant in the world will cover it. A sealant is pretty much on for good, so you have to make sure the paintwork is perfect before you start. Nor can you apply sealant over wax, so the car needs to be stripped down to bare paintwork. Once this is done, the sealant is the only protection your car has, so you have to ensure that every single bit of it is covered. It's not just a case of putting it on and taking it off! Extreme care needs to be taken in the application to cover every square millimetre. No only this, but sealants are difficult products to use. Unless you put them on in a certain way (trade secret) then you can end up with them causing a sort of hazed effect appearing later... it doesn't happen often but you can't take chances. This all amounts to much hard work. Aside from this, these products come with 6 year guarantees. Ultimatly this is a manufacturers warrenty, but guess who is on the front line, and if we didn't put it on right, we would be on our own! Six years is a sod of a long time to be tied to a customer, think about some of the people you have to deal with at work and tell me you would be prepared to obligate yourself to them for 6 years with no get out!!! would you do it for £30? Yes, dealers probably do charge too much. You may find it is the case that the head office works out a deal with the sealant company and they buy it in. They then sell it on to he parts department at a profit. Parts then sell it on to sales at a profit. And the salesman sels it because he gets a large commission. And often they then ruin it all by paying some (cowboy) contract valeter an extra £10 to apply it, which he does as if it were any other wax... Thats if he doesn't just decide to just apply a normal wax and flog the sealant on ebay, you better believe it happens! they also figure that £300 won't seem so much to you when you are parting with thousands for a new car. Anyway, I've told the story from my point of view and let you know why we don't just double our money and let you have it for under £50. Now I will tell you why it's worth paying in the region of £175 and the benifits you get. It's a poor sales gimmick in my opinion but the "never wax your car again" one happens to be true. You just wash, rinse with consever, and leather off. You save on expensive products and you save a hell of a lot of time over the years. You will save yourself about a day over three years. How much is your time worth? But thats an argument I seldom give because it just doesn't happen. People don't religiously wash and wax their cars continuoisly for that perod of time. Sooner or later the novelty wears off. it will rain and they will think, "whats the point? It will only get dirty again." It's a simple fact that 99.9% of the time, a three year old car with a paint sealant and all the other carpet and fabric protectors, will look far better than a car without... even if it has been cared for. We know this better than anyone because we have repeat customers who come back to us year after year and we keep an eye on what is going on with what car. Which ones have swirl marks, scratches, stone chips or rust. The ones with the sealants have less of all of these and when it comes to selling your car, this translates into pound notes. Not just hundreds, but possibly thousands of pounds. Paint sealants are worth it. Infact, they can give a very good return on your investment. You wouldn't have wasted your money even if you had paid for it I hope this answers all of your questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushy Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 So I am right in saying using a wax/polish will give a better shine, polymer based products last longer but not so shiny? So if I apply a Meguiars polish then a wax compared to a sealant option I would get a better shine but it wouldnt last so long? I actually think that is the case where I have compared NXT to 3 stage products myself So then if you use the sealant option from new use conserve and water the car will look great for ever? I used to have an RS Turbo escort many years ago and I had it Diamondbrite 'd from new. Yes the car looked great from day 1 but after about 3-6 months it was almost impossible to remove the flies and road film/dirt using water and the conserve. I found you may have some dirt that you just couldnt shift, it needed some cleaner, well I soon got fed up going to the valet shop to get it re treated and then resulted to using Autoglym or similar to keep it looking tip top When I sold the car after 2 or 3 years it looked the mutts, but this was down to regular cleaning and waxing So arguably you could say you need to wash the car every 3-7 days dependant on mileage to keep it clean, compared to once a week with some chemical wash that will remove more of the road fall out? I think a high mileage using who drives into London traffic alot and doesnt garage their car - like me - needs to keep regular waxing as these long life products cannot resist the high level of environmental attack! Also we are all like minded petrol heads here, so weekly/monthly polishing and cleaning goes with the job description does it not? What are your experiences with this for higher mileage drivers? Also Meguiars do a Polymer Sealeant in their professional range that can be applied over the polish and wax coats to give a better lasting finish, or what about using NXT as a final coat - as say a stage 4? Do you think this would increase the length of shine time? What do you think of top up finishes like Meguiars Detailer? Just for giving it a quick once over? Mainly silicon based I know but still very good? Just interested in your opinions, at the end of the day extremecarcare is only a side line for me, I started it after doing a group buy on asn and thought it was the mutts compared to anything else I had used, it is a reasonable little business now but is hard work and you can never have too much experience or find new information. Hope you dont mind sharing your experiences, I think Meguiars compete with other brands by it being a good alround set of products at reasonable money. The people who dont get on with it are usually using it incorrectly or have found a different product that doesnt directly compare and suits their needs better. It certainly out shines the traditional Autoglym products that many people have used Good thread BTW CHeers Bushy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted July 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 wow thanks darren - you kept your word in spades; ditto the follow-up from Bushy [equally interesting for me]. i take what you say; what i think would have been pefect would be a sealant which allows you to wax on top when desired, as this way you would have the underlying long-tern protection, but could have extra-shine on tap for special occasions. still, i feel your info was needed to bring the wax/sealant argument to a "rational" rather than empirical level. ps next time i'm in london i might just happen to find my way to esssx for you to run your diagnostic hands over the bonnet nice posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 I had my car sealed within a couple of weeks of buying it and I can only agree with everything Darren has said. I have tried to say that a few times on here but have never managed to articulate it as well as that, I guess adding some science to the argument always helps Clearly having used a sealant, it has never seen wax, it doesn't need it but it still looks minty clean after just a wash with water and a mild detergent and then leathering off. So long as you use the conserver the finish on your paintwork is amazing. It's so smooth you can almost imagine the hard shell the sealant provides the paintwork and bugs either come off with the jet wash or with a wipe of the sponge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 [ QUOTE ] I used to have an RS Turbo escort many years ago and I had it Diamondbrite 'd from new. Yes the car looked great from day 1 but after about 3-6 months it was almost impossible to remove the flies and road film/dirt using water and the conserve. I found you may have some dirt that you just couldnt shift, it needed some cleaner, well I soon got fed up going to the valet shop to get it re treated and then resulted to using Autoglym or similar to keep it looking tip top [/ QUOTE ] There is something very wrong here. I don't know what, but it doesn't sound right at all. I have a suspicion that your car wasn't paintsealed at all... this actually happens a fair bit with cars from a dealership. You really should have taken advantage of the 6 year warrenty and contacted JewelUltra. this hardly ever happens, and has never happened with any of our customers but I understand they are very good about such things. We have a VW transporter van, and it doesn't get cleaned nearly as often as it should. usually when somebody notices that it is showing us up. This was Diamondbrited 4 years ago and as far as I know, nobody has ever bothered to wash it with conserver. I personally washed it last friday because I had to mask it up for spraying our livery on it. It's white which is the worst colour, and they never paint vans as well as they do cars. but even this much abused van cleaned up easily with no staining. The same goes for my own car which is also much abused... It often goes a number of months without a wash, let alone anything else! Ulrtashield keeps it looking glossy and well protected. And finally we have a courtesy car which does quite high milage and very often ends up in London for the day. (collecting parking tickets and fines for entering the congestion zone). Again we have no problems with it. Diamondbrite is a 2 stage sealant which does a very good job of sealing the porus paint which should eleiminate virtually any chance of staining. [ QUOTE ] I think a high mileage using who drives into London traffic alot and doesnt garage their car - like me - needs to keep regular waxing as these long life products cannot resist the high level of environmental attack! [/ QUOTE ] the opposite should be true. I may be able to give you some melt and fracture points and other hard data later on in the day, but the main advantage of sealants is that they are so chemical resistant. Most pollutants end up with an acid of some kind or another attacking your paint, and wax just doesn't hold up the same as plastic. But at the end of the day, if you guys are willing to put in the work with waxes, then that will do fine. As I already mentioned, waxes, synthetic waxes and sealants are all sacrificial layers. As long as you keep them topped up then your paintwork should remain covered and protected, you just have to keep an eye on the fallout which goes right through anything. *** We arn't really regular users of the Meg' products, certainly not anything outside the proffesional and body shop ranges. But my father-in-law uses them all the time in his business and actually worked for them as a rep for a while. They are an amazing company, even the reps have PHDs and MAs. On the whole I wouldn't want to mess with thier products as they have put so much effort into building systems which work. And as long as you follow the instructions, they do work. I am not familiar with the Meg's polymer sealant, although I suspect that it is more of a synthetic wax than a sealant in the fashion of Supagard or diamondbrite. In America the termanology is often very different. In America, many people would call NXT a sealant, it gets very confusing! But this raises an interesting question... if a Sealant is a sacrificial leyer which needs to be topped up with conserver because it has been sacrificed... then if you add another sacrificial layer over the top, such as NXT wax... what happens? The Jury is still out, but I tried it on my car with amazing results. I'm restoring a Golf GTD Turbo and I'm going to use this method... if things go wrong, at least I have the technology to put it right again. But I have been warned that the solvents in the NXT (strong solvents are in all waxes, even Swizzol and Zymöl) could effect the sealant underneath. But they would say that wouldn't they? You can't expect a sealant company to say it's okay to stop using the conserver and start using somebody elses wax!!! Meguiars Detailer is the kind of product that we have absolutly no use for what so ever. We do have an equivalent product floating around somewhere called Tango. They do exactly what what it says on the tin and give a wet look shine... but that is because effectivly they are wet, they are packed full of solvents and oily chemicals which soon dry out and evaporate. They last a few days at most and that has it's uses if you ar at a show, but they would make us look bad becuase it's not what our customers pay for. They want something which lasts. I can't complain about them because they don't claim to do anything they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted August 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 gave the old bird its first hand wash by me today... it was so blooming sunny that by the time i went round to do the 2nd half of the roof the first bit was drying out hence it turn into a panel-by-panel shampoo-then-rinse session. didnt realise how thick the conserver is...mixed it thoroughly in the water to form a "greasy suspension"; went on easy enough [bonnet got about 3 wipe-overs ] and only then realised that [dont know how] i some how managed to pick up triple wax "artificial chamois" instead of a leather chamois and getting the bloody water off was more of a struggle than washing it almost . it was overcast by the time i was done so didnt really see the effect of the wash/conserver but later noticed when i parked under lights that it was more shiny going back to the wax/sealant debate - the car is certainly clean but doesnt gleam the way it did when i first got it nor even after it was diamondbrited..this is where i guess waxing it would bring out more of a shine than the conserver...or maybe my crap chamoising technique had something to do with it as well Then again - it aint gonna gleam if there aint no sun shining on it - looking foward to seeing the fruits of my labour in the morning..okay make that midday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 Oh year, I almost forgot... I told you the proper way to apply the conserver, but I have been told a wy that is supposed to be better. I am told that you can put it on a sponge and apply it like wax, then rinse off with clean water, then leather off. Just so you know, when we apply polish or wax, (or in theis case, conserver) we use natural sponges. Not the kind you would find in body shop, the ones we use are quite small and pretty dense, but once damp are very soft. They are pretty expensive but they are the best thing to use without a doubt. When it comes to taking off, we started using microfibres, but have since gone back to using synthetic chamoise leathers. some are better than others, most arn't as good as a micro, but the one sold by Halfords is the best of all. Halfords are pretty expensive but we import them direct from the factory. They are realy good and miles better than a real chamois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted August 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Oh year, I almost forgot... I told you the proper way to apply the conserver, but I have been told a wy that is supposed to be better. I am told that you can put it on a sponge and apply it like wax, then rinse off with clean water, then leather off. [/ QUOTE ] by saying this you have reinforced an idea that formed when i was "conserving" the car on saturday: the instructions are to add 2 capfuls of the conserver to a bucket of water and apply...well i did and in the end i ended up with a dilute solution of which there was at least half still left after i went over the whole car and then the bonnet, roof and boot twice...which i just poured over the roof and bonnet before drying off... surely then next time [thinks i] i can add the 2 capsfuls to 1/2 a bucket of water and have a more concentrated solution with which to go over the whole surface of the car properly.... as it is still "conserver solution" it would remain very easy to apply with a sponge, and more of the conserver would be on the car and less in my bucket at the end...and more conserver per square inch [kind iof thing] would be applied to the paintwork... less taxing than trying to apply it even more concentrated still [ie "neat"] then rinsing off.... what say you, oh wise one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanimage Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Sounds okay to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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