Bison1379134007 Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 So im just doing a bit of reading coz im bored... I now get what is meant by a hydrid turbo... (i'm slow i know) its basically taking the compressor from one turbo and the turbine from another turbo... so you can still get quicker spooling with a higher airflow... So in the case of the T3/T4 you take the turbine section from the T3 (quicker spool) and the compressor section from the t4 (higher flow capabilities) Ok now there seems to be quite a few bits to a turbo but with all the ceramic ball bearings and all that [censored] your looking at about 1000-1500 dollars... the turbo MSRP is 750 dollars... So the bit im confused about is what beyond the turbo do you need to change in the engine? Firstly you have ECU time etc... Then there is a new exhaust manifold which is presumamly just to interface with the new turbo? or is it to actually take more flow? A new waste gate? New down pipes? Is that is? I understand the oil and water lines will need "hooking up" but surley thats just a new interface or seomthing? or does a faster turbo require more oil? some sort of new pump? See what im thinking is why it is soooo expensive to go to a new turbo? Or are you really just paying for the expert time spent making the fecker work? ALso i guess i'd be right in thinking the main difference between s3's and any other 1.8T is just the turbo (its getting replaced anyhow), the con rods have been strenthgendd and the intercoolers right? So i guess looking at kits for 1.8T's would work out for us too...? Heres a pretty cheap 350bhp one i found... but there are many more... http://63.72.125.112/products/items/transverse18t.asp Anyone out there running a hybrid? if so what work went into your beast to get it done.... Isn't the internet brilliant... 30 mins of reading and you can talk like you almost know what your talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Isn't the internet brilliant... 30 mins of reading and you can talk like you almost know what your talking about [/ QUOTE ] In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 If you wanted to fit a Garrett you'd need a new manifold, to make the garrett fit the 1.8T engine. Downpipes cos it'd be in a different place. ECU remap to gain full advantage. Wastegate.... hmmmm depends doesn't it! Most turbos have an internal wastegate so no, you'd be ok.. if the turbo you changed to required an external wastegate then you'd need to get this too. Jabbasport do a luvverly manifold to take IHI turbos.. £500 its on their website... The key to doing this is mappable engine management, rather than buying a generic chip solution ( e.g. revo ) get mappable management, then each change you make (turbo, cams, downpipes, etc ) only requires alteration of the map. Cheaper in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillslinger Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 What would you have to do to fit a hybrid k03/k04 to an A3?? Sounds kinda nice, a k03 turbine with a k04 compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison1379134007 Posted February 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 hey crafty... thanks for replying... so looks like i was right... ish what about the oil and water lines? just a straight swap over from the KKK turbo? no extra requirements... So really the massiv cost on this is the work and ECU time... not the actual parts them selves... for some reason i always thought the garrett trubos were like 3K or something... and revo have got a "self tunable" version coming out soon i think... not saying it would work on this setup though... haven't asked whats jabbas website, do you know? And drill... don't get the T3/T4 confused with the KKK K03 and K04 that vag use as standard on the audis... if you were looking to upgrade on your K03 i think you could just fit a K04 and get some new ECU code... not sure who does this type of upgrade though... might need new pipes apart from that it should work out... does anyone know if the exhaust manifold sizes are the same for the k03/k04?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Bison, Jabba's web site is creatively http://www.jabbasport.com/ Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillslinger Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Yeah Nick, I gotcha. Was just wondering what a k03/04 hybrid would be like Thx, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison1379134007 Posted February 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 ahh im with ya... damn i'm being slow today... just tried to find if one was in existance... havn't seen it yet how about i lend you my k04 when i got the t3/t4 on and you can try making it yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillslinger Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Yeah, I can just see myself sitting there with some tin-snips, a hacksaw and some duct tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 I 'm sure that in the early days MTM were ( still are? ) into hybrid turbos, I suspect that they would be KO3/4 althoiugh I'm also read that Garrett are more 'tuneable' ( may have been on APR 's US site ?? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 For oil and water lines you just need to get the required hoses made up. You'll probably find someone locally to you that can do this.. or maybe your turbo supplier can provide them. From what I understand the Revo Sp52532 Rev. 2a ( or something like that ) allows you to alter timing and boost, but this wouldn't really be sufficient to remap a car with a different turbo. The fully adjustable software is only going to be given to dealers from what I can gather. A Mappable ECU has more advantages than you can shake a stick at, Have a look on the TT Forum, there is a post titled "Engine Management" - the various advantages are brought up there. Bear in mind before you go bolting a big turbo to your car and running infinite amounts of boost through it that the 1.8T internals are a bit girly and need to be replaced for serious power. Crank will be ok but pistons and rods need to be a bit stronger to handle the likes of 30psi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_C_Nwales Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 p8pro ecu sounds like the best option for this as it's fully programmable. It does more than others out there and is far cheaper, about £1100 +vat. If you want to know more on it then speak to Tim at www.centralvwaudi.com Tell him that steve sent u! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_C_Nwales Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 and.... forgot! lol....they can make your manifold for u cheaper than £500, they have a lad that comes in for them to do just that, he even makes intercoolers and full exhausts, all custom jobs but are dirt cheap. Also, they have tuned 2 cars recently to over 650+bhp for around the £2.5k in labour and parts, these included the p8pro and turbo and manifolds and all other pipe work. Don't forget, if your putting a bigger turbo on, that means more air getting into the engine, so you will need to increase the fuel supply or even add second injectors or at least bigger injectors, say 550cc or even 600cc injectors. If you find your getting turbo lag once all the work is done, add a nitros kit with 25hp injectors and set it up to cover the turbo lag, this way you'll need a pilots license to drive the beast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison1379134007 Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 thanks for the replies..... crafty, revo are bringing out an "advanced tuning kit" that lets you tweak values using a laptop... but you might be right it might only let you play with the boost timings etc... its all interesting stuff.... course i'll never do it.... kinda like my cars reliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 The jabba manifold isn't cheap, but it looks pretty good for airflow, its cast and ceramic coated inside. I doubt if you could do all the development they have, have a cast manifold made and ceramic coated for £500. You could build a tubular manifold for less though, especially if you can weld. Autronic would be my choice in mappable ECUs.. A highly tuned car *can* be reliable nick, you just have to choose the right components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison1379134007 Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 this is true! so what car you got crafty? its not in your profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 likely to be replaced with an S3 this year oh and but we wont go there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 MIG web refugee crafty? Have i seen it at Billing, Trax or VPCC days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 MIG ? thats tantermount to swearing mate Yes you will have seen the car around *alot*. Billing, VPCC days, Santa Pod, Trax etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Laughs! you better PM me the story! Im still over ther from Calibra 16v and Vectra GSi Days, tho was never a member of the club. I dont post much now. was funny i did get my S3 on the Mig stand at billing last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 No story to tell really, I've never been a member and have only posted once or twice. They are a close set group of sheep, one buys a product, all the others go buy it, even if its crap too many stereo and "I clean my car nightly with a toothbrush" types for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andiroo Posted February 22, 2003 Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 Hey Bison, just caught up with this thread The Garrett conversion is proving most popular in the states, especially with the roller bearing GT28 hybrid, flowing up to 450bhp not bad for one turbo. Unfortunately that seems to be around 2.3bar, which can prove quite costly when you try and get the rest of the engine to stay in on piece Just out if interest, why look at the T3/T4 option when Turbodynamics can hybrid your K03 for a lot less? These are the guys that are currently working on my pair of K04's, as I didn't want to go the the K16 route coz of the huge lag. The K04's are getting totally rebuilt and flowed with a hybrid compressor housing, and even keeping to 1.8bar will flow 287bhp each no problem. Might be worth a look for you BTW SteveC, £2500 for a 650bhp motor - did you miss a digit off there somewhere? If you didnt it will probably last about 3 miles before going pop It would be interesting to see the engine spec and plot for one of those mate Andiroo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mori Posted February 23, 2003 Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 Another big problem with the 1.8T is that if you get a T3/T4 and want it to pump up your engine to 400PS you might have a problem with the cylinders, etc. While the S3/TT 225PS engine has forged pistons and is overall strengthened over the 150PS 1.8T, it still isn't undestructible. I believe 350HP is the absolute max you should go with and still have it "street reliable". My friend in Poland has already gone through 6 engines in his A3. He owns a tuning company, rolling road and all so he's testing his new designs on his car. The best he had was a 4.00 seconds flat to 100km/h (62mph). Unfortunately the engine didn't make it to 400m (1/4 mile). It exploded around 120km/h. At the time he had it tuned to 275PS with a K04, FMIC and added a 150PS nitrous shot. Anyway, he now has a CT26 turbo from a Toyota and its pulling a little over 300PS, no nitrous for now I think. He's also converted his original A3 FWD to Quattro. Basically, now its an A3 with AWD from a TT, TT engine and toyota turbo. And it is a good idea to just go ahead and get a Unichip or something similar. It will allow you to remap your car at a rolling road without any re-chipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_C_Nwales Posted February 23, 2003 Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 Hi ANdiroo, Speak with Tim at centralvwaudi (phone 0151 355 1246) and he'll give you the full spec on them. The 20v 5cyl turbo engines are a lot stronger than what people think, and they are very very tuneable for not much money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andiroo Posted February 23, 2003 Report Share Posted February 23, 2003 Cheers Steve, will do. 650bhp with an in-line 5 with only one turbo for £2500 sounds like deal of the decade mate Andiroo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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