Paul Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Purposely put here so everyone can see, as i know i for one, do not view the VW forums... This looks Lovely..... [ QUOTE ] And now, the world's most exclusive sports utility vehicle in this form is making its début at the same place: the Touareg W12 Sport, initially available as a limited edition only. The 331 KW / 450 hp special-class SUV, which reaches 250 km/h (electronically limited, speedometer up to 300 km/h) was designed by Volkswagen Individual. The combination of the twelve-cylinder engine, air-suspension running gear and all-wheel drive is currently unique throughout the world. The unusual driving performance, such as acceleration from 0 to 100 km/h in 5.9 seconds, are impressive, but are not necessarily in the foreground. It is more the way it moves – which is superior in every respect – that makes the Touareg W12 Sport appeal to a very sophisticated clientele. The maximum torque of 600 Newton metres applied by the 6.0 litre twelve-cylinder ensures that the Touareg can produce almost inexhaustible reserves of strength both on and off road. The petrol engine, which is classified under the EU4 standard, has a six-speed automatic transmission (Tiptronic). [/ QUOTE ] Linky to original article.. now that is one beauty! Gotta love the 6.0l 450Bhp W12 engine ... dribble ... I would love one if : A.I could afford to buy one B.Owned an oil refinery. Fear the fuel economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Now Paul, I could be very tempted by that, i must admit!! Any idea on price?.. must be looking at £70,000K I reckon.. that is a serious amount of dosh for a VW Cayenne springs to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dave, if you get one, im comming down south for a Holiday one seriously nice motor. Havent got a clue on Price. Way out of my price range.. considering the V10 diesel STARTS @ £52,375 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiPartner Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Wow, that is one awesome machine!! Got to be all of £70k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 [ QUOTE ] The combination of the twelve-cylinder engine, air-suspension running gear and all-wheel drive is currently unique throughout the world. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmm, perhaps in a SUV, but not totally unique! I can think of better ways to get air suspension, AWD and 6 litres of 12-cylinder goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritey Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 I could live with that instead of a series 3 landy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4dreamer Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 That springs to the top of my list (well, just below the DB9 anyway). Now where's the sawn-off - I only need to find an extra 60 grand to get one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaddyDub Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 [ QUOTE ] I could live with that instead of a series 3 landy [/ QUOTE ] I hear that! Does anyone know the situation with the weight of this engine compaired to the V10? I know you can get both in the Phaeton. But is the W12 heavier or lighter than the V10? Just wondering as that would probably affect the off road performance. ...or am I just talking ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiPartner Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 [ QUOTE ] This looks Lovely..... [/ QUOTE ] Shame nobody at the show seems to think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This looks Lovely..... [/ QUOTE ] Shame nobody at the show seems to think so! [/ QUOTE ] Yeah they saw the price and did a runner! Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiPartner Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 You following me Riz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 [ QUOTE ] You following me Riz? [/ QUOTE ] Ermm nope... Riz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Sorry to be the dissenting voice but it looks as awful as it is pointless! An offroad vehicle that gets to 60mph in five and a bit, useful... Sorry, but if you want an offroader, buy an offroader, if you want a performance car then buy that instead, at least there's a fair chance it'll corner and stop as well as it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snail Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Gotta agree with Ari. Every company that makes a 4x4 does a "sport" special edition, yet with the exception of maybe a cayenne and an X5, i wouldn't want to attempt to drive a sport 4x4 sportily, for fear of rolling it. I had a race from the lights the other day with a suzuki vitara "sport", and its about as fast as my car........FFS its a "sport", and can only just keep up with a 2 ton 90BHP tractor, how is that sporty? [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Gotta agree with Ari. Every company that makes a 4x4 does a "sport" special edition, yet with the exception of maybe a cayenne and an X5, i wouldn't want to attempt to drive a sport 4x4 sportily, for fear of rolling it. I had a race from the lights the other day with a suzuki vitara "sport", and its about as fast as my car........FFS its a "sport", and can only just keep up with a 2 ton 90BHP tractor, how is that sporty? [/rant] [/ QUOTE ] If something is badged 'sport' then I totally agree it should be sporty ! Thats why you're right to exclude the Cayenne, in Turbo form that car lapped the Top Gear test track with a time identical to the E46 M3 Coupe That is one off roader that can certainly go around corners as the the Touareg W12 - looks pretty enough, by that I mean better looking than the Cayenne and would probably sell better than the Phaeton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Sorry to be the dissenting voice but it looks as awful as it is pointless! An offroad vehicle that gets to 60mph in five and a bit, useful... [/ QUOTE ] Hmmm, but they [prospective owners] probably question why you spent quite so much on a 1.8 litre fwd car. I hate off roaders, although the 2000 X5 4.4 Sport is the exception to this rule. Even so, if I needed spacious, comfortable and fast transport, I would take a serious Audi Avant everytime. Then again, I am slightly biased! Ian C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Hmmm, but they [prospective owners] probably question why you spent quite so much on a 1.8 litre fwd car. [/ QUOTE ] Because I couldn't afford to buy or run the 4.2 litre four wheel drive version, whats their excuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tturbo Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Does anyone else think that the arches look way too big for the wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 For a big off-roading 4x4 it looks good. Although how much use it would be is another matter. Why get a 4x4 and then lower it, bespoiler it and totally ruin the ground clearance? However, if I was in the market for such a beastie - it would be a Range Rover or Toureag. Don't like the BMW X5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viraje Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 This all assumes that the potential buyers are buying it for any reason other than because it has big numbers assoicated with it and it's bigger than the other cars on the road. I suspect that most Porsche Cayenne Turbo drivers haven't used half of the vehicles capability, but drive it because, a) they can win car top trumps with their mates down the pub, and b) because they can bully their way through town easier than in an S-class or 7-series. On this score the Toureg is spot on. Who cares that it has 40-series tyres and would struggle of road. Only off roading it's going to do is on the gravel drive or parked on a grass verge. There is a market for this car, but not with anyone that calls themselves a car enthusiast. [/2p] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4dreamer Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Sorry to be the dissenting voice but it looks as awful as it is pointless! An offroad vehicle that gets to 60mph in five and a bit, useful... Sorry, but if you want an offroader, buy an offroader, if you want a performance car then buy that instead, at least there's a fair chance it'll corner and stop as well as it goes! [/ QUOTE ] I tend to buy cars on some combination of looks and performance. It doesn't really matter to me whether they're called an "off roader", "4x4", "Avant" or "R32" . I personally think the Touareg is a good looking vehicle - especially in black. Much better looking than the Cayenne, and slightly better looking than the X5. I wouldn't be surprised if the Touareg, Cayenne and X5 can brake from 60 as fast, if not faster than your cab Ari. Just 'cos the majority of cheapo off-roaders have the brakes of an old mini and leaf-spring suspension doesn't mean that all of them behave like that. At the end of the day, people buy cars for all sorts of reasons, and not just for the pigeon-holes that the manufacturers/press stick the car in. For many it's a lifestyle decision; for some (like me) it's based on certain capabilities and looks, and for others it is simply to do a job. A W12 Touareg may seem pointless and ugly to you, but you try getting a big TV in your boot or towing a car/boat/etc or driving onto building sites every day. You might not choose a "4x4" (whatever that is), but I doubt that you would choose the cab either. To follow your argument to its logical conclusion, why do any of us need a car that can do over 75mph or get to 60 in under 30seconds, or have a roof that you can take off ? We don't, but the manufacturers produce such vehicles and stimulate demand by sexing up the image of them so that we think we must have one. People then make their choice about which of those vehicles fits best with what they want out of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 [ QUOTE ] An offroad vehicle that gets to 60mph in five and a bit, useful... Sorry, but if you want an offroader, buy an offroader, if you want a performance car then buy that instead [/ QUOTE ] know where you are coming from Ari (eg the new Freelander Sport with 18" wheels and lowered suspension - well why raise the bloody suspension in the first place?) but there may come a time when I have a family and only have space/practicality for one car and I want something practical, safe and relatively quick so I don't feel like I am getting too old a Cayenne turbo that looks like that Toerag would be perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyDazzler Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Newby here. Couldn't resist commenting on this thread. It always amazes me how so many of us can be so critical of the automotive decisions made by others. Really interesting debate though. The last two posts seem about right to me... [ QUOTE ] To follow your argument to its logical conclusion, why do any of us need a car that can do over 75mph or get to 60 in under 30seconds, or have a roof that you can take off ? We don't, but the manufacturers produce such vehicles and stimulate demand by sexing up the image of them so that we think we must have one. People then make their choice about which of those vehicles fits best with what they want out of life. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but there may come a time when I have a family and only have space/practicality for one car and I want something practical, safe and relatively quick so I don't feel like I am getting too old a Cayenne turbo that looks like that Toerag would be perfect [/ QUOTE ] We all have our reasons for buying our cars, and although those reasons may not be obvious at first glance to others, they must be fairly important as few people stumble upon their next car, especially when we're talking new (or nearly new) prestiege 4x4 money!! I feel as though I really can comment having just picked up a similar car myself only yesterday. We went for an ML though - it was my wife's birthday present and thought it only right she picked. Having a young family, I want the two most important things in my life to be in the very best place that I can get them in. In our case that's an ML. For others it's somewhere else. Parting thought... Before I'd even read this thread I'd been musing over an odd thought - don't lock me up just yet!! If the world went mad (and by all accounts it looks like it might!!), and because of some big-scale catastrophe (for that read: nuclear/biological accident/attack), I need to get my nearest and dearest as far away from the epicentre as possible, what car would I choose? Toss between VW Touareg V10 TDi and Porsche Cayenne Turbo for me. The Porka should get me further faster (just). The Dub should get me further without re-fuelling (just). Our ML will do nicely though until I can move into the next league though. Where would you want you and yours to be? Leave you to ponder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4dreamer Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Welcome to Tyresmoke BobbyDazzler! Interesting you chose the ML - I've been thinking about having one off and on for the past three or four years, but other than a test drive, just haven't gone anywhere except thought. To me, the ML had more space and class than a BMW X5, although the X5 was certainly fun to drive. At a guess I'd say you weren't from the UK, but if you really had to get out of the thought situation you described, then much as I dislike them, a Land Rover Discovery would be more than appropriate (see if you can get a copy of BBC's Top Gear which was broadcast last night - they drove a Disovery to the top of a Scottish mountain - I doubt the ML or X5 could do that, although perhaps the Touareg might ) Back to you thought experiment, I think it would probably have to be the V10 Touareg for me. After all, where are you going to get a bit of road on which you can drive the Cayenne at full speed - especially if everyone else is trying to vacate the area too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyDazzler Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Cheers s4dreamer!! I probably sound American with all that stuff about biological attacks although I'm not far from Birmigham (England, not Alabhama!!) Clarkson didn't seem to rate the Disco (or is that LR3?) as a family car, but seemed to love it off road. It was impressive, but I dread the cost to put right all that electrickery if it ever goes wrong out of warranty!! Probably still less effective than a Defender off-road too!! ML didn't do too well on Top Gear J D Power survey, but I had expected that, as early US built cars have some quality issues, and everyone I spoke to said if you can stretch to it, get a late Austrian built car as no issues at all. If I spent £40k on a car and had quality issues, I'd get one of those questionnaires and voice my opinion!! ...trouble with J D Power is that only people that are chuffed or gutted about the car can be bothered to take part!! We're pleased with our ML. Several friends have them and speak highly. One had an X5 beforehand, and he said the X5 is certainly a better car, but only just, and doesn't warrant the extra money - big difference when second-hand or nearly new. This was my thought process: Cayenne V6 Bad: Expensive, thirsty, no diesel, very snotty local dealer Good: Rare-ish, interior, ...it's a Porsche!! X5 D Bad: How much!!??, very snotty local dealer Good: Looks, interior, engine, dynamics Discovery (new model) Bad: Expensive, servicing cost, no chance of a nearly new, long term depreciation Good: New diesel engine, ages before replacement ML Bad: Quality issues on early US built cars, due for replacement soon-ish Good: Relatively cheap, relatively easy to find, facelift looks good, cheap insurance, practical for family Blimey!! Long post!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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