ER785 Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Have anyone with lowered suspension looked at their car from rear face on.The left wheel has more camber than the right?? Is this a S3/TT factory fault??? Pls help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 sounds like you need adjustable tie bars.. Funny thing this as my toe out was greater on the left compared to the right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ER785 Posted May 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 My mechanic is telling me this is a factory original fault, its just when the car is lowered the effect is exagerrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvador Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Hello in my car happened the same but here in Peru, I take my S3 to AUDI store and they correct it. Its dificult for me to explain it. Tell me if you understand spanish then I tell you what to do Salvador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaiaresearch Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 Hello I would suggest that the excessive camber itself is of more concern than the slight differences in camber. The camber problem on mine after H&R drop springs can be seen here: http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/s3/SuspensionSystem/02.JPG I corrected this by having my control arms modified to adjustables, which can be seen here: http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/s3/new_Pages/suspension_System.htm (trash the "new_Pages" section should the link not work in future). Be warned however, that correction of the camber results in excessive toe-in. I destroyed four new tires in 20,000 km (rotating)from running first the negative camber and then the toe-in. I solved the toe-in (last week) by slotting the trailing arm chassis connecting plates, which were already at the maximum adjustment as a result of the drop (only 25mm)here: http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/s3/SuspensionSystem/12.JPG I will post photos of this stage of the modification within the next two weeks and will pop a link here. My project can be found here: http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/s3/index.htm Regards Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanS3 Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 I had this problem sorted at quattro sports in Haywards heath for around £200 i think. The fitted adjustable tie bars, it took a couple of hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ER785 Posted May 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Dear Stuart (The DIY S3 Guru) Thanks for your comments. your quad pipe exhaust inspired me to make changes to mine With regards to the rear tie-bars, after fitting adjustables versions. Did the toe-in worsen?? How was handling after the new tie bars alone? My car have been realigned but still steers to the left. BR Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mori Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 What is toe-in? I'm considering the adjustable tie-bars from Forge Motorsport - should I buy them or will I have other problems after installing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ER785 Posted May 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 According to Stuart, even if we have the adjustable's put on. With correct camber will affect the positive toe-in. (Both rear wheels pointing inwards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mori Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Thank God for Google.com. A little piccy of what toe-in is does wonders. Anyway - how bad is it and how far from the factory settings? Damn, this isn't good ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaiaresearch Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Hello Guys If you drop the height via lowering springs, the camber will be out of spec, which latter is established to ensure a reasonable tyre footprint and tyre life. My tyres, in spite of frequent rotation, were slicks within 20,000km (12,000 miles) and this, after Audi SA replaced the fronts under warranty at 5,000km due to excessive front toe-in whilst still stock, at which time new settings for the S3/TT were used and following which the H&R's were fitted and the alignment done to the revised specs once again. After installing the adjustable control arms and again re-alligning to the revised specs, the rear camber was brought close to spec, but not quite, so as to limit the rear toe-in somewhat, a compromise until the Bilstein short-throw high-pressure gas shocks were in hand and the trailing arm mounting brackets, which latter were at their limits of adjustability, had been slotted to increase range of adjustment necessary to correct the toe-in. As it turned out, it took a while to receive the Bilsteins (some metalurgical problem at the factory in Germany) and just as the wet winter arrived here in South Africa, the shocks arrived, the brackets were slotted and the new tyres fitted. The result....perfect alignment within specification, precision handling and expected drastically increased tyre life. I may dial in a little more negative camber to reduce the otherwise faster wear on the outer edge of the tyres, should this prove to be the case, and do so without inevitably dialing in more rear hungry toe-in. The handling with the adjustable control arms alone results in a slight increase in the dreaded understeer at speed, since the leading harder working rear tyre is biased into the corner and tracks the rear in that direction, the opposite of what you want. Of course, if one wheel has chassis determined more excessive negative camber than the other, your car will wander to one side from the rear, as opposed to the natural setting designed to bias the steering front of the vehicle towards the shoulder of the road should you nod-off or pass-out whilst driving. Mori, how far from the factory specs will have to be determined by setting your wheel alignment and comparing the values. If the technician reaches the point where he can adjust no more, it's anyones guess where he will choose to set the inevitable compromise. There are one or two things you need to know before slotting the rear trailing arm mounting brackets, which is a simple job in principle, but requires some chassis grinding in practice, to secure enough adjustability. It's well worth doing it properly. I have never had more confidence to just chuck it into a corner at previously impossible speeds now that I have set it up correctly. I will in due course post a photo-essay on my website www.gaiaresearch.co.za/s3 so that you can do the mods with full confidence if you wish to follow suit. Regards Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Hey Stuart, for the record, after lowering my car, I had the 4 wheel alignment carried out (the Oxfordshire tuner who carried out this service failed to tell me the toe setting was 7 times greater on the left than the Audi max tolerance for this after they adjusted the settings - 's) and the negative camber was corrected by the fitting of adjustable tie bars by QST. QST spotted the excessive toe problems and machined a special trailing arm mounting bracket to correct this - so your post confirms something for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Is this something i should consider with my factory fitted Quattro GMBH lowered and uprated suspension???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Paul, good point - I don't know.. I can't see audi not doing something about the camber/toe settings when the car is tuv approved.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ER785 Posted May 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 Thanks Stuart, great stuff to share Sita, Do QST sell the same adjustable arms as Forge?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 I don't think the QST ones are made by forge - however they're essentially the same I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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