R32North Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 280hp = faster acceleration, which means objects get closer quicker, which means that given the same reactiom time you'll need to stop quicker - hence better brakes! Also, the suspension is an integral part of how the power is transmitted to the road. More power will mean more stress on the suspension.... oh, suspension is more than just damepers and springs, its bushes, links, roll bars, wishbones, etc, and I'm taling about it all. With all that power you'll want to be able to control the car better, keep it flatter to the road and less likely to step out, so uprated damerps / springs, bigger ARBs, hardened bushes, etc are required to improve all aspects of power transmission and road holding. But in a nutsheel - you don't opt to have 280hp and then drive it the same as when it had 200hp. You will drive faster, brake later, enter corners at higher speed and try and exit them at greater speed as well... all of which means you'll push the stock set-up to the limit and beyond, so YES you will need to upgrade brakes and suspension for those very reasons! I've been driving cars for 15 years, tweaking them, modding them, pulling them apart and rebuilding them and one thing that has always stood the test of time is that when you up the power by a large amount, without fail you do the brakes and suspension or ultimately you will pay the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I would value your advice whether you think that the GTI would be within sensible and safe limits (in the way you describe in your post) to upgrade to 220 bhp without further suspension/brake etc mods. Many Thanks, Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I would value your advice whether you think that the GTI would be within sensible and safe limits (in the way you describe in your post) to upgrade to 220 bhp without further suspension/brake etc mods. Many Thanks, Robin [/ QUOTE ] Aye, 220 / 225 would be fine maybe even 230hp with standard parts.... thats only a 10-12% hike in power, but start to creep towards 280hp and you have a totally different car on your hands. The pressures and forces being applied - think of all that power / torque be transferred to the drive shafts and tyres, while the engine and transmission are being held in place by the mounts, and the wheels / tyres are directly connect to the struts - are much greater and so beefed up parts are required otherwise shortened life spans of std parts is to be expected! Most importantly are the driving and handling characteristics of the car - no way will 280hp be the same as 200hp. Different beast althogether!! I've only had the ~6463 remap, filter and exhaust and reckon about 255hp / 260hp. If I were to go above 280hp, ie cams upgrade, even with the R32 having massvive brakes I'd upgrade. I'd also change the ARBs and possibly the struts / springs, even tho they are Bilstien / H&R. Also, don't think for a minute that VW parts are up the job when talking about big power hike like that - mounts, bushes, links, etc will go pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Robin, you could comfortably uprate the GTI to 250 bhp without needing to uprate your brakes as well, but you would be pushing it! The cost of uprating the anti-roll bars is relatively small compared to uprating the shock absorbers and coils, but the car would definitely benefit from it, even with the stock 200 PS Also, brake upgrades don't have to mean mega-money. You can spend anything from £500 to £2500 - it all depends how far you want to take the car. DanAdams - I have to agree with Six - if you uprate your GTI to 220 or 230 bhp, you'll be fine, but when you start getting into the realms of pushing a lot more power, you've got to be able to stop more quickly. A lot of it does, of course depend on how you drive your car. The R32 brakes, for example, are fine for normal road use, but spend even an hour on a track and they fade too much. The Mk5 GTI brakes are fantastic, but I'm sure they would fade after prolonged use as they do on most road cars when they're driven hard, on the track or "enthusiastically" on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 SixDegrees and Mook - That's great and what I hoped to hear. My conclusion is that 220-230 is as much as is sensible for the GTI's durability and driveability on the road without further very physical mods. I expect too that re-mapping isn't just about achieving high bhp numbers but it's also about improving practical efficiency throughout the whole range. In my opinion, however hard you drive a car it doesn't need to be constantly driven hard and it always needs to be within safe boundaries, in terms of both road conditions and any stresses on car components. In F1, Mercedes-McLaren pushed the envelope and suffered the consequences in reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aswall Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I agree totally with the comments about the need to upgrade other components, especially brakes, when getting a substantial hike in power. You will be getting up to a higher speed in the same distance and your brakes will be generating more heat to haul you back down again. Do that for a while and you will find you have no brakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Plus brakes are the last thing you want to discover have stopped working when pushing along at high speed and you need to stop quickly!! Never take chances with brakes when power and speed are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I tell you what- buy a GTI on Gran Turismo 4 - upgrade the power to 280hp, and then see if you end up in a gravel trap with 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiey Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Yeah but the GTI's handling in GT4 is dreadful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonl Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I still whipped my mates 3.2 TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Yeah but the GTI's handling in GT4 is dreadful... [/ QUOTE ] I think it's something to do with the fact that it's a game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixit Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Anyone else noticed the lack of a 5th gear "upchange" in GT4 with the Mk5 GTi? ....3loody Annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentandy Posted October 16, 2005 Report Share Posted October 16, 2005 I posted some initial Revo graphs a month or so ago. It has to be noted that the highest increase gained was on 100 Octane race fuel so I'm guessing the 288bhp quoted was done on that, otherwise it seems excessive! Here are the original graphs. I'd be happy if I had got 260bhp, I think I will be going down this route at some point. Revo is switchable too so I'll be able to tone it down when the gf drives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15KJS Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Andy, where have you got that info from. I have looked on Revo's site and cannot find it, the reason wht I ask is that I am very interested in the revo upgrade and was wanting to know a price etc. Thanks in advance Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentandy Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 It was on a post over on uk-mkvs.net a month or so ago. Have a quick look on there, Revo have their own bit in the tuning section. I am not sure if prices have been announced yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 [ QUOTE ] I also learnt today that 17s are very efficient and tuning doesn't mean you need bigger wheels. Milltek's 19s on their tuned GTI are purely for aesthetic reasons. [/ QUOTE ] Quite right about the tyres and wheel sizes. Bigger wheels stiffen things up, but also can provide less feel when driving on the limit compared to a smaller wheel with a larger tyre wall. Granted bigger wheels look better, but for the racetrack smaller wheels and bigger tyres every time! 282bhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 [ QUOTE ] Granted bigger wheels look better, but for the racetrack smaller wheels and bigger tyres every time! [/ QUOTE ] I think you're comparing going round the track in your Massey Ferguson aren't you Danksy..?! 19" wheels and tyres on a 35 profile provide much more taut handling than 18" wheels with a 40 profile. 19" wheels and tyres and much more difficult to live with for daily driving though. One of the great things about the Mk5 GTI is that the 18" wheels are the same design as the 17" wheels, so, unless you're an officianado, no-one will notice the difference just looking at the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupramax Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi chaps, I'm getting mine remapped soon (same running gear as the Gti but with 4wd )and will be looking at the brakes for sure (more weight due to 4wd gubbins). I'm pretty sure the 345x30 setup on the A3 3.2 will go straight on the A3 and Gti. You'd need the discs, back plates, calipers and caliper carriers which work out at approx £400 plus fitting. You'd then have the same setup of an S4 which is more than enough. Perhaps a group buy might be in order... I've also run a Revo Leon Cupra R running approx 280hp for nearly 3 years and a FWD chasis can handle that sort of power easily if you are sensible with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Thanks Cupramax Solid info for those considering bigger re-maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentandy Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I like the idea of having S4 brakes should I go down the remapping route to make sure it stops as well as it goes. I'll keep that mind, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupramax Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Robin, I'll keep my eye out for you... not far away by the looks of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 ....And you would be in the car in your avatar? I sometimes go to Absolute Music Solutions in Poole and also occasionally play at an 'open mic' gig at The Blue Boar in Poole but haven't played there for a while cos they tend to be a bit too folky (musically) for my taste. My GTI is a bit....distinctive....Quads on an Abt rear and a RED plate on a Red car. Flash bugger ain't I....Not chav though! See ya, I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunner Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 http://www.oettinger.de/index2_e.htm Oettinger has been working with VW for many years, my guess is that the 250BHP GTI's available in Asia have this re-map as standard from the factory. I will be taking this route, the GTI can handle a 10-15% increase in torque quite easily without any suspension or brake mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now