Regulator Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 As far as I know it is legal to buy a german style plate with your car's UK registration number on it. Does any1 know if this is fully legal? If it is, in your opinions where's the best place to buy them? Thanks for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 This has been discussed before, and as they are not the correct font with the correct spacing, they are apparently NOT legal in the UK for a UK registered car. They're chavvy, anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Ermmm, they're illegal. No way do they comply with the regulations. Google is your friend anyway, HERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 In the Golf+ mag there is a couple of articles about this subject.....£60 fines, confiscation of plates and reclaiming private reg if miscorrectly spaced, seems there is going to be a crackdown on german and show style plates, and legislation is currently going through parliament that is expected to be in effect from next year and totally outlaw all non-legitimate plates. The above sentances taken from the mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulator Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 K ... thanks for all the help guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oatz Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I also remember reading about this topic and as far as i can remember the main reason for the non-legitamate plate crackdown is mainly due to terrorism apparentley..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Nothing to do with the fine they can collect then, and the extra bonus from reselling the number plate they take off you to someone else (so that they can misplace the lettering again)? When you buy a cherished number plate, it doesn't belong to you. All you buy is the right to use it. If it's not on a vehicle, and you don't pay the holding charge to retain it for yourself, they can sell it to someone else. What's that all about, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elucidate Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Riiight, first of all, this has been discussed before, so try doing a search. Secondly, they are NOT illegal. The 'might' be illegal if you try it on, like mis-spacing or using the tax stamps. From Dubmeister: The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001 saying otherwise... And we quote: 1PART 1 VEHICLES REGISTERED AND NEW REGISTRATION PLATES FITTED ON OR AFTER 1ST SEPTEMBER 2001 (MANDATORY SPECIFICATION) 1. The plate must be made of retroreflecting material which, as regards its construction, colour and other qualities, complies with the requirements of - (a) the British Standard specification for retroreflecting number plates published on 15 January 1998 under number BS AU 145d[13], or (b) any other relevant standard or specification recognised for use in an EEA State and which, when in use, offers a performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification, and which, in either case, is marked with the number (or such other information as is necessary to permit identification) of that standard or specification. 2. Where the registration mark is displayed on the front of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a white background. 3. Where the registration mark is displayed on the back of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a yellow background. PART 2 VEHICLES REGISTERED ON OR AFTER 1ST JANUARY 1973 AND BEFORE 1ST SEPTEMBER 2001 (OPTIONAL SPECIFICATION) 1. The plate must be made of reflex-reflecting material which, as regards its construction, colour and other qualities, complies with the requirements of - (a) the British Standard Specification for reflex-reflecting number plates, published on 11 September 1972 under the number BS AU 145a[14], or (b) any other relevant standard or specification recognised for use in an EEA State and which, when in use, offers a performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification, and which, in either case, is marked with the number (or such other information as is necessary to permit identification) of that standard or specification. 2. Where the registration mark is displayed on the front of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a white background. 3. Where the registration mark is displayed on the back of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a yellow background. © Crown Copyright 2001 Section from page: "]http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20010561.htm#sch2 Note (b) in each section! Then Dubmeister asked the DVLA and got this response: "I can confirm that your assumption is mostly correct and European number plates may be used legally on vehicles manufactured between these dates (1973 and 2001). Schedule 2 Part 1 also extends the 'European' facility to number plates fitted on vehicles manufactured after September 2001. However, the equivalence test would be carried out against the latest issued British Standard" _____ So, if you use the correct spacinig, and reflective plates, german plates are indeed legal, or so insignificantly illegal that they won't bother anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjfr Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Can I ask why you would want them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Because they look exotic in a humdrum world. And ACR cameras just might have a harder time reading them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 I think the crucial point here is - Does the use of the German style of plate meet the British Standard BS AU 145d, because if it doesn't then the plate will not offer a "performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification" and therefore it will be illegal. And from looking at the German style of plet I can see a few areas where it might not be up to the Britsh standard - Size of lettering - must be 79mm x 50mm - Spacing of lettering - must be 33mm gap between numbers and last 3 letters!! - Font used: don't know what it is but you must use that font (new style plates) - BSI standard must be displayed on plate (added by me: or equivalnet I guess so it can be compared) Not sure I agree with the anal attitude our government has towards such things, but that life!!! Howvere, I'm sure if you get a copy of the full standard and ensure that you have you German style plate made up to these standards, then if you get stopped simply advise the Police officer that you plate complies with all aspects of BS AU 145d and be on your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 The only aspect of the plate that can be classed as "performing" as well as the BS standard is the reflectiveness. - As long as your German plates reflect as well as a standard UK plate there is nothing they can really do, by their own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The only aspect of the plate that can be classed as "performing" as well as the BS standard is the reflectiveness. - As long as your German plates reflect as well as a standard UK plate there is nothing they can really do, by their own rules. [/ QUOTE ] Size and spacing of letters is also part of the 'performance' in relation to being read properly from the required distance, both be a person and by cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elucidate Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 However, as long as the font is 'susbstantially similar' to the current used BS font, and the plates were fitted before September 2001, you may use them. So, in fact, the font isn't an issue either. And I know for a FACT running german plates can help in certain situations with parking tickets, due to the fact I got a warning as opposed to a PCN on thursday night because they couldn't tell me car was a UK car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I think the crucial point here is - Does the use of the German style of plate meet the British Standard BS AU 145d, [/ QUOTE ] It probably doesn't have to - it is the same with motorbike crash helmets - most people assume Simpsons etc. are "illegal" as they haven't passed BS testing but they are legal under the "similar" requirement - otherwise all foreign vistors would have to buy UK crash helmets ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insurance Jon Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] This has been discussed before, and as they are not the correct font with the correct spacing, they are apparently NOT legal in the UK for a UK registered car. They're chavvy, anyway [/ QUOTE ] thanks mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 ESPECIALLY Chavvy on a Ferrari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] However, as long as the font is 'susbstantially similar' to the current used BS font, and the plates were fitted before September 2001, you may use them. So, in fact, the font isn't an issue either. And I know for a FACT running german plates can help in certain situations with parking tickets, due to the fact I got a warning as opposed to a PCN on thursday night because they couldn't tell me car was a UK car. [/ QUOTE ] So, you're actually getting away with a crime by having them on then!!! But you completely mis my point, its not that I don't like the german style plates or agree with the UK laws on such things, but the fact remains if Mr Police Man deems them to be illegal then you're screwed as it his 'expert' opinion and that is that. Trying to intepret the law as you see will not stand up against the Police. Use them by all means but if plod stops you and fines you, don't argue or moan about it, or try and justify using plates that are not what the UK law defines are acceptable, accept the fine and move on! If you using them to get away with parking fine or speeding offences,a spreviously mentioned you should seriously consider you're actions. Oh, I also forgot, its a Motoring offence to move, misrepresent, alter or chnage any of the lettering on a UK plate. Plus, regardless of Font, the letters must be of a cerrain size both pre and post 2001. Pre 2001 you have two sizes, post 2001 you have one size. The spacing between letters and groups of letters as well as the border width are also defined and any changes to these constitute a plate that no longer meets UK requirements, both pre and post 2001 - totally anal and unnecessary IMO but its still the law, hence my point above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But you completely mis my point, its not that I don't like the german style plates or agree with the UK laws on such things, but the fact remains if Mr Police Man deems them to be illegal then you're screwed as it his 'expert' opinion and that is that. [/ QUOTE ] They are either legal or not. It is surely not up to the police to decide wether they are, or are not, as different people may look at it differently, depending on the circumstances at that moment. Assuming you have plenty of cash to go to court with your 'expert' witness, yur DVLA correspondence etc ...... !! Don't know how things are now but a few years ago it was cheaper to be done for having a false numberplate, and no points, than getting caught speeding ! Would suggest that has been tightened up -- before one of you tries it out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But you completely mis my point, its not that I don't like the german style plates or agree with the UK laws on such things, but the fact remains if Mr Police Man deems them to be illegal then you're screwed as it his 'expert' opinion and that is that. [/ QUOTE ] They are either legal or not. It is surely not up to the police to decide wether they are, or are not, as different people may look at it differently, depending on the circumstances at that moment. Assuming you have plenty of cash to go to court with your 'expert' witness, yur DVLA correspondence etc ...... !! Don't know how things are now but a few years ago it was cheaper to be done for having a false numberplate, and no points, than getting caught speeding ! Would suggest that has been tightened up -- before one of you tries it out...... [/ QUOTE ] As its a motoring offence and Law is 'Theory' and then applied differently by different Police Forces, I think you'll find that it is up to the Police to decide if they are illegal or not! (in the same way the Police can decide if that were speeding without any proof what-so-ever) The Law define the parameters, the policy (police) and the context in which these matters sit, but ultimately its the Police (policy) who interpret the Law (in this case motoring offences) and apply it as they see fit. You could go to court and argue you case, but you'd be up against 'Experts' who have been granted the right to decide if there is an offence being commited. Its not always fair in the eyes of the offender but thats they way it works in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Can I ask why you would want them? [/ QUOTE ] Also discussed very recently here in the A3 S3 forum. Completes the German look. The concensus seems to be that you either go the whole way - German pressed plates, German font, white rear, stadt badges and plakettes - or not at all. A half hearted mix-match is asking to be pulled, whereas a fully German appearance is left. Personally I don't think a following Police traffic car would leave a typical UK format like K3 JDN unchecked nowdays - although Jon introduced me to www.eutags.com after proving otherwise in his RS4! My choice would be a more German looking sequence of characters, such as two letters four number, a configuration that is available yet very unusual in the UK. This is further boosted by the fact a few letters (like Z) were available before 1st Sept 2001 in these unusual formats - whereas they were not used with regular prefix A123ABC style plates - making them look strange indeed. The true German format seems to vary between three letters four numbers and four letters three numbers. In Germany the stadt badges and plakettes appear between the letters, but in the UK breaking up groups of letters is illegal in all cases, meaning you have to work around this. Bottom: one of the original German-registered B6 S4 press cars. Inset: a UK equivalent I created using www.eutags.com (and PhotoEditor) using a valid UK vrn on sale through the DVLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elucidate Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Hang on a second here, the police don't 'MAKE' the law, they simply enforce the law. The police themselves do not make any one of the laws in this land, not one. This is a big mistake that British people think is true, the Americans have a far more educated viewpoint. The job of the police is to enforce the law, no more, and no less. The LAW of numberplates was brought in by a government agency called the DVLA, it was then decided in a court of law, that this was the way things were going to happen. BTW, Judges and or politicians passed this law, it was absolutely nothing to do with the police as far as making it actual law. The police act as advisors and issue 'guidance' on all aspects of law, but it is simply guidance. This is the reason why roughly 6000 people in the UK have legally owned semi automatic weapons, the police 'guidance' says that normal citizens can not have them, but demonstrate good reason and voila, you have yourself a semi auto. Also posted above was the actual DVLA guidelines pertaining to fonts, spacing, british standard etc and yet people decide to afterwards, still post absolute nonsense regarding the characters and spacing when it CLEARLY states that pre 2001 you do NOT need to adhere to BS spacing and fonts!!! IT couldn't be any clearer, unless of course you just skim read and don't actually understand words, in English. The police expert issue is a non starter, as the DVLA set out a clear policy, so if your plates fall within these, it does not matter. Police experts are brought in for offences where nothign can be proven to the absolute degree, such as "I believe your honour, in my expert opinion he was travelling above the speed limit" when they don't have any laser equipment to back this up. So to clarify, as clearly stated on the DVLA website, which is actual law, and cannot be changed, no matter what a policeman says, you may : any other relevant standard or specification recognised for use in an EEA State and which, when in use, offers a performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification Oh, look, just above and in bold to make sure, the LAW states 'equivalent' and german plates are made in germany yes? Therefore they meet TUV standards, and germany is another EEA state. Case Closed as far as the incorrect information above is concerned. On the same issue, yes, dodging state sanctioned fines is indeed illegal, but my plates fit with part b of above, so blow me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 So the arguement there is almost: 'A German car can drive in Germany with German plates. A German car with German plates can drive in the UK. A UK car* with German plates can drive in the UK.' All part of the EU I guess. NOW I realise why it was yourself who pointed out go for the full German pressed plates, not a mix match! TUV approved. Dur! Where do we stand with a post 1st September 2001 car though such as the 2003 B6 S4 Avant pictured above though Elucidate? Ian <font color="#666666">*just happens that the UK car is German built</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elucidate Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 If you read the excerpt from the DVLA, the (b) section applies to both pre and post 2001 registered cars. The difference is actually in the type of reflectiveness of the plates!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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