mattcony Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Orange I dont know if this is real or not, but it looks like there could be an even better Haldex upgrade unit coming, found on Vortex but there not letting anything slip yet Only time will tell what exactly it does and how it handles, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2500443 Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMeanBob Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 Hmmm....seems like no-one is letting on what the difference is with this new one...Was about to get the current PPP installed in the next couple of weeks....now I'm gonna have to wait aren't I??? b0b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitas3 Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] not letting anything slip yet [/ QUOTE ] was that an intended Pun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsy Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] not letting anything slip yet [/ QUOTE ] was that an intended Pun? [/ QUOTE ] or maybe a Freudian slip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Hmmm....seems like no-one is letting on what the difference is with this new one...Was about to get the current PPP installed in the next couple of weeks....now I'm gonna have to wait aren't I??? b0b [/ QUOTE ] If it is such a bright orange, it might be to signify that it is for the GEN3 Haldex diffs fitted to the MkV R32s (and new A3/S3/TT), whereas the blue one was for the generation 1 Haldex on the MkIV R32, S3 and TT... I doubt Haldex could do much more to improve the unit for the original R32 over the blue HPP (unless they replace the diff!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasT Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 In the pics above he's fitting it to a Mk4 tho' I reckon they've just painted it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan32 Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Its got something to do with HPA in Canada, according to the 'Tex post. It may be that HPA have tweaked the software themselves and come up with more aggressive map for the Haldex than the PP. They already have tested it on their twin turbo setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMeanBob Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 How different is the Haldex unit between the Mk IV and V? I was always just going on the assumption that the MK V had the HPP as standard as it is the 'current' haldex unit at present. Anyone actually know? b0b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan32 Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 From what i can work out, the MKV version of the Haldex can transfer more power to the rear than the MKIV. I wait to be corrected though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32TIM Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 I am no expert, but having read all the other posts on Haldex and how it works with the clutches etc....i'm guessing it can still only apply 50% becuase the power still goes through the front diff?.. I'm guessing the MkV has the new Haldex controller but thats where it ends.... ps... that looks like it's fallen from a focus RS...probably just emits a blue glow under the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan32 Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 I thought I read somewhere the new R32's Haldex can send up to 100% to rear wheels if necessary which is why I assumed they were different units to MKIV R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32TIM Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 i think it comes down to 100% of what.....power or torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Its got something to do with HPA in Canada, according to the 'Tex post. It may be that HPA have tweaked the software themselves and come up with more aggressive map for the Haldex than the PP. They already have tested it on their twin turbo setup. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, the 'texers are foaming at the collective mouth for some details to be released by HPA (Canada). It seems EIP in the US are also doing a similar controller. It appears to be a "tuner only" tweak of the HPP from Haldex, in that you cannot buy it from Haldex; and is for the generation 1 Haldex differentials found on the MkIV R32 and the TT. I'll post more info here if it becomes available (unless someone beats me to it - Daemon?)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattcony Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I emailed HPA trying to buy one They told me details will be out on Monday (today) so lets see if they mean it. Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 All versions of Haldex can transfer up to 100% of the torque to the rear. Torque is an applied force. It must push against something so if 100% of the traction is at the rear, (front tires on ice for instance), then 100% of the torque goes to the rear up to the holding limits of the Haldex clutch itself (4000Nm). If the traction is equally split between front and rear then static torque transfer is 50/50 when Haldex unit is locked (the figure quoted by most magazines, because they don't understand torque either ). The difference between stock Haldex and standard HPP is that the HPP can initiate the process of locking sooner and more aggressively, and reacts to inputs like the rate of throttle application rather than just throttle position. Rich@EIP claims that the the head of HPP development told him that HPA's Haldex controller is not developed by Haldex at all and while it may have different software tuning (respond to inputs differently), there's no way that it can produce any *more* torque transfer than the HPP does now. I agree with that assessment. The maximum torque transfer is regulated mechanically within the main unit (pressure relief valve), not the controller. It'll be interesting to see what HPA has to say. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think we're cracking that old chestnut open again Ian Think we discussed this in length around this time last year, about the torque transfer front to rear. Didn't you come up with some fantastically clear ilustrative pics using Lego or Meccano..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Ya, Legos. Most people still generally don't get it. However the wording in the marketting literature finally changed which is why people now believe that the MkV has a new/better Haldex when it's really doing exactly same thing. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs32 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hopefully someone can educate me here - I was under the impression that there is such a thing as Haldex 2 ? Is my MkV Haldex the same as my old MkIV V6 4motion Haldex ? Or are we now talking here about Haldex 3 ? sorry if I'm missing the point completely, I moved away from VAG for 18 months so haven't kept up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Hopefully someone can educate me here - I was under the impression that there is such a thing as Haldex 2 ? Is my MkV Haldex the same as my old MkIV V6 4motion Haldex ? [/ QUOTE ] Depends. Does it look like this? or this The Gen 1 Haldex programming has changed a fair bit in different VAG models though. [ QUOTE ] Or are we now talking here about Haldex 3 ? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think so. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 OK guys. The full thread is on VWVortex: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2517062 Daemon has a great description on the mechanics of what they are claiming further down the thread too. The gist of the new controller is (shamelessly cross-linked): [ QUOTE ] HPA releases the Competition Haldex Controller Developed by racers for racers; the Competition Controller, clearly identified in orange, transforms the Haldex equipped 4-Motion platform into a weapon on the track. Similar in principle to the standard performance Haldex upgrade, the Competition Controller features one MAJOR difference. Back in the ’80s the Audi Quattros dominated the race track with their unbelievable ability to brake late when entering the corners. This ability was a result of the rear axle staying engaged under full braking allowing for a combined mechanical and frictional stopping force to be applied across all 4 wheels. The Competition Haldex Controller offered from HPA mimics this by keeping the rear axle fully engaged while under braking. Where the stock Haldex and HPP units release the rear axle into a free wheel situation as the brakes are applied, the Competition unit keeps the rear axle engaged, generating additional mechanical force to assist in slow down and maintain dynamic chassis balance. The Competition Controller is best suited to FI applications with high torque outputs. The experienced driver will benefit from the additional chassis control afforded by the equal deceleration rates of the front and rear axle. This allows the driver’s input to dictate the vehicle dynamics under braking, corner entry and exit rather than falling victim to the abrupt disengagement of the rear axle. This added stability and control translates directly to faster lap times; making the Competition Controller a must for the competitive driver. This application is not suited for slippery or snowy street use as it will cause immediate over steer when braking in a corner. <u>Price: $999</u> HPA releases the Stealth Performance Haldex Controller Due to popular demand, HPA introduces an unpainted Haldex controller with 100% of the same features and benefits of the blue controller. Each unit is subtly identified as an HPA Stealth Controller. This provides the perfect alternative for the enthusiast who does not want to draw attention to their performance modifications. <u>Price: $899</u> Check out these and other new performance products for your turbo charged or naturally aspirated R32 on our recently updated website: http://www.hpamotorsport.com/products_turbo_components.htm [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Great find Rachel I like this bit: [ QUOTE ] This application is not suited for slippery or snowy street use as it will cause immediate over steer when braking in a corner. [/ QUOTE ] Yee ha! It's very difficult to induce lairy behaviour from the HPP upgrade I run on my car (not the new HPA one) unless you're on a track, but it is definitely noticeable in the transfer of the weight to the front wheels under braking, because the car will start to snake while the ESP tries to figure out WTF is going on (even with it switched off on the dash, it's never fully disengaged). The next upgrade (going on today) is the KW V3 suspension upgrade to settle the car more, then, once I've got this properly set up, I could be seriously tempted by the HPA Competition Controller... It's only money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket_Man Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The Competition Haldex Controller offered from HPA mimics this by keeping the rear axle fully engaged while under braking [/ QUOTE ] The reason the stock (and HPP) module disengaged the rear axle is so the safety systems can work, surly this will mess them up!? ABS would be my main concern as I rarely have ESP on, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Go read the full thread on VWVortex - all will be revealed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagtech Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Any one who may be interested in purchasing the new Competition Haldex Controller from HPA Motorsports. VAGtech will have stock of this item next month; price will be £587 + VAT. Fitting can be arranged on request. More info http://www.hpamotorsports.com/products_turbo_components_haldex.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollox Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I hope you're not using Tyresmoke for free advertising there vagtech? That's not really fair on the forum is it? We can arrange some banner advertising if you'd like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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