ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] That's not the point, both of them would have "suited my needs" - in terms of function and quality. [/ QUOTE ] Sam that is the point the Audi has far better build quality than both of those cars, which is one of the reason's why you would have bought it I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Possibly, but most Audi (and BMW, and Merc) buyers would buy an Audi/BMW/Merc if it was built like a Fiat, if it still gave them the same image and status. In fact, that's exactly what has happened with Mercedes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 How do you explain mercedes buyers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] How do you explain mercedes buyers? [/ QUOTE ] garcon got there before me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] This is bearing in mind that I'd bought a house, settled down, etc long before I owned anything remotely like the value of some of the vehicles on TSN. [/ QUOTE ] When I got my first mortgage, shortly before I turned 22, my car was a company-owned car that was technically a pool car that I could take home in the evening and weekends, and it was utter shite - a rusty, battered, flogged Escort 1.4 L with dodgy brakes and perpetually lumpy oil that blocked the oil feed lines at inconvienient times. Just before I quit work to become self-employed, just before I turned 23, I used my last three months pay slips to get nine grand of credit on a ten grand Cavalier TD, a nine month old ex-Avis 19k miler in metallic pale dogturd. That car was a revelation after the Escort - it had a radio with RDS and TP, it had ABS brakes and didn't break down very often. It was quite a costly car having just quit work, but I needed something that would take 45k miles a year, which it did for several years. Then Vauxhall had a weekend test drive of a Vectra. Any Vectra. Even the 2.5 V6 SRI. I had to have one, the power hike over the Cav was incredible and it had a TrafficMaster thing that spoke to you. What were they, about £17k or so? After realising that a very nose-heavy, rear-light car with FWD and 170-odd horses (IIRC?) was a bad idea (OK, I stuffed it and bent it badly), I got into the Audi brand when I was 26 with £25k or so of A4 2.8 Sport, and it's kind of snowballed since then. So, I can understand why somebody in their mid-20s would want a £20k-£30k car, but I do think that a lot more people that age are living with parents and having a car like that instead of a mortgage and some future financial planning - more evidence of the 'want it now' culture? At least I got myself on the property ladder in the best house I could afford and more than doubled the value of it through years of hard work in extending and improving it, and the S8 and allroad are the culmination of 11 years of very hard work (fancy averaging 50 hours a week, 50 weeks a year for 10 years anyone?) building a business that supports that kind of benefit. Oh, and I think the age of fossil fuel motoring will draw to a close as energy sources finally move away to new technology, so I figure I should enjoy it now while I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Possibly, but most Audi buyers would buy an Audi if it was built like a Fiat, if it still gave them the same image and status. [/ QUOTE ] Not me, I'm in it for the technology and build quality. If they went away, so would I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Possibly, but most Audi buyers would buy an Audi if it was built like a Fiat, if it still gave them the same image and status. [/ QUOTE ] Not me, I'm in it for the technology and build quality. If they went away, so would I. [/ QUOTE ] That may be true, but I suspect an awful lot of people wouldn't. Particularly the corporate leasing market.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] How do you explain mercedes buyers? [/ QUOTE ] What about them they make quality slightly overpriced well engineered german vehicles. There is maybe people that buy them for the wrong reasons but thats my personal opionion because I dont like them, cant knock the engineering though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] What about them they make quality slightly overpriced well engineered german vehicles. [/ QUOTE ] I think most recent Mercedes owners would agrue those points. Their quality recently has sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_C Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Possibly, but most Audi buyers would buy an Audi if it was built like a Fiat, if it still gave them the same image and status. [/ QUOTE ] Not me, I'm in it for the technology and build quality. If they went away, so would I. [/ QUOTE ] Same here - 'image' and 'status' mean nothing to me, so I guess I'm in the 5%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Possibly, but most Audi buyers would buy an Audi if it was built like a Fiat, if it still gave them the same image and status. [/ QUOTE ] Not me, I'm in it for the technology and build quality. If they went away, so would I. [/ QUOTE ] And I'm sure the majority of Audi fans on TSN would agree with you. At the moment, the quality of the Audi product is superb. But you're not representative of the majority of premium car buyers. All they see is the neighbours looking at the badge. And as a long time Japanese car fan, it still amazes me that alot of new Audi buyers seem to accept that the car they've spent a small fortune on will inevitably need to go back to the dealer in the first few weeks/months to have niggles rectified. I've had five new Subarus, and none have needed to go back. No niggles. In fact the only visit to the dealer any of them have made outside of servicing and part-exing is the Legacy, which had a safety recall that (as it turned out) didn't need any work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 I concur with Chris_B and my buying history proves it. I've owned BMW's alongside Skoda's, a Nissan Primera, a Peugeot 406, a Honda Accord, a Ford Focus and even a Citroen AX 1.4D Echo that I thrashed up and down the A19 for a year until the oil cap looked like it'd been dipped in mayonaisse.... I bought my first BMW when moving from a Honda Accord. The reason I did so was simple. I was tired of plastic looking interiors and the E46 was new out and felt like it was built like a brick poohouse. I looked at Saabs and C-class Mercedes at the time too. It had nothing to do with image at the time and everything to do with the way the car drove and how it felt to drive. It wasn't as quick as my previous Accord, but rather than doing some things superbly, some things poorly and a number of things rather irritatingly...it did everything exceptionally well. Then, I think back to earlier this year when my wife almost ended up with a Volvo XC90. The deal fell through but make no mistake we'd have bought it over an X5. Image didn't come into it. I could have opted for an A6 ahead of my A4, and a much higher spec - but again I didn't feel the need to as I just wanted a mile cruncher. Okay, so it was still an Audi, but it wasn't an Audi bought for image purposes. Then, whilst the 6-series may be perceived as an image driven car, it was chosen entirely on the way it drove and I can back that up if people look back on TSN and see that it was chosen over a Maserati! Surely, if I'd wanted image, I'd have gone for the Maser? I've not bought a 911 - because I don't like them. They have a generally accepted image though, but it doesn't interest me. I know a good many Audi, BMW and Mercedes drivers buy on image, but not all. Furthermore, I'd wager that anyone buying a Mercedes in this day and age is much more guilty of buying on image and brand perception than any Audi or BMW driver! At least the latter can back the image up with a quality car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What about them they make quality slightly overpriced well engineered german vehicles. [/ QUOTE ] I think most recent Mercedes owners would agrue those points. Their quality recently has sucked. [/ QUOTE ] Again Sam that is just a guess the mercedes brand sells extremely well and as I understand there sales are getting even better. You cant beat German Engineering when it comes to cars which is reflected in the cost, all cars have issues some time or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How do you explain mercedes buyers? [/ QUOTE ] What about them they make quality slightly overpriced well engineered german vehicles. [/ QUOTE ] Have you driven one recently? That word doesn't come into a Mercedes these days. They're downright awful in respect of quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Again Sam that is just a guess the mercedes brand sells extremely well [/ QUOTE ] That is not a guess, that is fact. Several friends of mine have owned recent E-class's and have had really quality issues with them. High sales != quality I guess you are not trying to annoy, and that it does come naturally, anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 But you can't beat Japanese reliability - something all German marques are along way short of. After realising they've screwed up, I understand Mercedes are sorting out their act - the models they've recently released may be ugly, but their quality is almost back to old school Mercedes standards. Now they just need to sort out the dealers. I'm not saying all Audi/BMW/Merc buyers buy on status/image alone - just that in modern Britain that's exactly how alot of people think. And I'm not knocking the quality of German cars - that's one of the reasons they have become a status symbol in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 I've been in a few not driven one since Feb 06 (SL55) which I was impressed with but totally impratical for my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Image - Status: Am I missing something here, when would a car give you that. [/ QUOTE ] Well, let me see. It's the main reason 95% of Audi and BMW owners would give for making their choice. [/ QUOTE ] I picked mine on the looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Again Sam that is just a guess the mercedes brand sells extremely well and as I understand there sales are getting even better. You cant beat German Engineering when it comes to cars which is reflected in the cost, all cars have issues some time or another. [/ QUOTE ] In isolation, that statement is true. However, it masks the reality. See, they're up 8% - on last year for the same period...February. Their recent press release was dated, was specific, and was highly misleading. The fact is that the month they chose to compare this years figures to was the worst month they'd had in years - so they were showing 8% up on a sales figure that was wayyyy below expectation last year. Its rather like the crime statistics, employment statistics and everything else - you can put spin on them in both a positive and negative light, but it's generally accepted in the motoring industry that Mercedes-Benz products are not what they were and that they're struggling to put them right. As I said, they're bought, IMO, by people who aren't up to date with the car market and have little knowledge of the problems their cars have had - so I do believe they're an example of a car bought largely on image and little else. There are a few exceptions (the new SLK is reputedly a good car). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 I'll throw a few more things into the equation here. If I'd bought purely on status and image, then I'd have blown what amounted to £55k (after the wheeling an dealing) on something a lot more image-boosting than a 6-series! Ferrari 355 could have easily been in the garage - fear the bills. Lamborghini Countach Anniversary could have seen my childhood dreams realised Porsche 911 would have belittled the 6's image no problem (in most peoples eyes) Aston Martin DB7 or an older Vantage - no problem with image at all! However...I didn't. They'd have met my needs in most other ways I guess, but if image was such a collosal factor then none of their impracticalities would have put me off, would they? Most people who own a new Golf GTi on here could have gone out and bought a older 911 - but they didn't. So I really do think the image issue is overplayed at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again Sam that is just a guess the mercedes brand sells extremely well and as I understand there sales are getting even better. You cant beat German Engineering when it comes to cars which is reflected in the cost, all cars have issues some time or another. [/ QUOTE ] In isolation, that statement is true. However, it masks the reality. See, they're up 8% - on last year for the same period...February. Their recent press release was dated, was specific, and was highly misleading. The fact is that the month they chose to compare this years figures to was the worst month they'd had in years - so they were showing 8% up on a sales figure that was wayyyy below expectation last year. Its rather like the crime statistics, employment statistics and everything else - you can put spin on them in both a positive and negative light, but it's generally accepted in the motoring industry that Mercedes-Benz products are not what they were and that they're struggling to put them right. As I said, they're bought, IMO, by people who aren't up to date with the car market and have little knowledge of the problems their cars have had - so I do believe they're an example of a car bought largely on image and little else. There are a few exceptions (the new SLK is reputedly a good car). [/ QUOTE ] There generally bought by people that can afford them and will have choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Can anybody tell me why so many chaffuer companys use Mercs and Jags or Lexus - Anything to do with build quality and reliability? Then again I suppose those guys dont have tight budgets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again Sam that is just a guess the mercedes brand sells extremely well and as I understand there sales are getting even better. You cant beat German Engineering when it comes to cars which is reflected in the cost, all cars have issues some time or another. [/ QUOTE ] In isolation, that statement is true. However, it masks the reality. See, they're up 8% - on last year for the same period...February. Their recent press release was dated, was specific, and was highly misleading. The fact is that the month they chose to compare this years figures to was the worst month they'd had in years - so they were showing 8% up on a sales figure that was wayyyy below expectation last year. Its rather like the crime statistics, employment statistics and everything else - you can put spin on them in both a positive and negative light, but it's generally accepted in the motoring industry that Mercedes-Benz products are not what they were and that they're struggling to put them right. As I said, they're bought, IMO, by people who aren't up to date with the car market and have little knowledge of the problems their cars have had - so I do believe they're an example of a car bought largely on image and little else. There are a few exceptions (the new SLK is reputedly a good car). [/ QUOTE ] There generally bought by people that can afford them and will have choices. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps, but my point is they choose Mercedes because they believe it to be a more prestigious brand than BMW or Audi. Don't forget there are still plenty of old folk out there (and surprisingly younger folk too) who think the old term of 'A Mercedes is a poor mans Rolls Royce' still applies! I find the same with Jaguar. When I sold mine and bought another BMW...my neighbour asked why I'd gone down from a Jaguar. FFS, nothing could have been further from the truth! Some people understand cars, some people just see badges. I guess it'll never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 There is another angle to this. When I decided to go out and choose a second car, I had a strong brand identity and image associated with Porsche - a strongly negative one. You see, I grew up in the 80s and Porsches were associated with red-braced pinstripe to55ers spending their City bonuses. So I started looking at all the 2 seat or 2+2 open topped cars that were on sale, with the intention of getting something that was not a Porsche. Then I actually drove a 911, and changed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Can anybody tell me why so many chaffuer companys use Mercs and Jags or Lexus - Anything to do with build quality and reliability? Then again I suppose those guys dont have tight budgets! [/ QUOTE ] Actually...I've been picked up from Heathrow on 3 occasions - and every time it was by a different company - and every time it was in a Lexus LS!!!!!! Maybe many that use the brands you mention merely play up to the image they know many people hold. You can't blame them for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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