ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 My warehouse is in west drayton so drive to heathrow almost everyday. I'll say no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Therein lies one unquestionable truth. The Lexus LS is by far the most reliable car in its class, and probably the most refined. It is the perfect chauffeur car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_C Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Can anybody tell me why so many chaffuer companys use Mercs and Jags or Lexus - Anything to do with build quality and reliability? Then again I suppose those guys dont have tight budgets! [/ QUOTE ] I think that where build quality and reliability are concerned, Lexus are right up there. Can't say the same for the other two though, IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Can anybody tell me why so many chaffuer companys use Mercs and Jags or Lexus - Anything to do with build quality and reliability? Then again I suppose those guys dont have tight budgets! [/ QUOTE ] I think that where build quality and reliability are concerned, Lexus are right up there. Can't say the same for the other two though, IME. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry john should have read (Mercs not Jags or Lexus ) The japs are generally reliable but engine will not last as long as a mercs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Honda have yet to have a single failure on a VTEC engine. Not a single dead fully replaced engine. No German manufacturer can claim that. I'm going to back out and agree to disagree, because I don't see where this going now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Can anybody tell me why so many chaffuer companys use Mercs and Jags or Lexus - Anything to do with build quality and reliability? Then again I suppose those guys dont have tight budgets! [/ QUOTE ] I think that where build quality and reliability are concerned, Lexus are right up there. Can't say the same for the other two though, IME. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry john should have read (Mercs not Jags or Lexus ) The japs are generally reliable but engine will not last as long as a mercs. [/ QUOTE ] You are joking aren't you. Honda Vtec or Lexus LS engine are about as bullet proof as you can get. Japanese car manufacturers tell component makers to make the components with a maximum failure rate. German car makers tell them to make them at a set cost and no more, why do you think Japanese cars are so much more reliable. When was the last time a German car won a JD power survey or similar !?!? Its all image. I know someone who has a Merc after having one for years changing ever 12 months, he said each new car has had more problems than the last and his current one is the worst yet. Oh and guess what they have changed the engine in it because of a major failure. He for the first time isn't going to get another one. He said its all badge and no quality. Oh and he is in the motor trade and owns his own garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin275 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Furthermore, I'd wager that anyone buying a Mercedes in this day and age is much more guilty of buying on image and brand perception than any Audi or BMW driver! At least the latter can back the image up with a quality car! [/ QUOTE ] What is your wager? Apologies in advance for the long post, but I’m not the only one! My dad bought a brand new E Class back in April when he took early retirement. It replaced a 2004 E270cdi that had been pretty much faultless. OK, some of the plastics could have been of higher quality, but he was coming from a long line of Saabs (3 x 9000, 1 x 95), so it was still a step up! When the time came to buy his own car for the first time in almost 40 years (excluding the Boxster and my mums cars), he decided to get another Mercedes (E280 Avantgarde Estate) and I can assure you that it had nothing to do with the image. I’ll give you the reasons why he didn’t buy the competition (briefly!) Audi A6 Avant – Thought it looked fantastic, but was very disappointed by the interior. My mum hated it inside, calling it very ‘Japanese’ (whatever that means) and he was disappointed with the poor standard spec and the ride quality. The sales women was terrible, which was the final nail in the coffin for Audi. BMW 5 series – He doesn’t like BMWs for a start. I managed to persuade him to go and look at one, but he said that he couldn’t live with the slightly cheap feeling, basic looking interior. He can’t get past the BMW driver image either, which didn’t help. Jaguar S Type – He’d borrowed one for a week when he bought the E270 and left it on the drive after 2 days because he hated it. He did look at one, but decided he wasn’t old enough for one! I won’t go through the full list, but he ended up back at Mercedes and the E Class suited his needs perfectly. He has noticed a number of improvements over his earlier car, including better seats, improved plastics etc. The Avantgarde model has a decent level of standard equipment (Auto, Xenons, metallic etc), so all he had to add was leather, heated seats and a phone kit. It drives pretty well and the new 6 cylinder engine and 7 speed gearbox are superb. To top it off, it has a huge boot and the car they found him had the 7 seat option which has already proved useful in enabling us to all travel together on short journeys. The huge discount was the icing on the cake. Also, 6 months in and not so much as a rattle. Maybe he is one of the lucky ones, but he's had two decent ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin275 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 If Audi drivers don’t buy on image, then I really don’t understand why anyone buys an A4 instead of a Passat. I’ll exclude the high end diesel and S4 models, and maybe the Quattros as well, because there isn’t an alternative (apart from being able to get a 3.2 DSG Passat 4 motion for the price of a 2.0T Quattro), but why buy an A4 2.0TDI over a Passat 2.0TDI??? The only thing, other than image, that I can think of is the styling. However, that’s subjective and even though I think the Passat is a more modern looking car than a standard A4, outside and in, I’m not including that in my reasoning! I won’t list all the reasons why a Passat is a better car than an A4, because this is TSN after all, but image has to be the main reason unless my requirements are so different to everyone else’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 I'm going to disagree with you here when you say it had nothing to do with brand - and I'll pick a section of your post to use in order to do so. "He doesn't like BMW's for a start" "He can't get past the BMW driver image either" That to me says he IS concerned about image and he does believe in stereotypes. I'm also unsure as to why he thought an A6 interior was disappointing, because they're far from it and even I'll say that! So are you sure there wasn't a degree of him not thinking the Mercedes was for him before he even looked at the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Wooooow there. This isnt' a bash Audi or Merc or anything thread. You have just re-stated why indeed that Audi's, Mercs, BMWs etc. are all over priced in comparison to something like a Ford, Seat, Skoda or Toyota. Its the badge plain and simple. There was a test in a car mag a few years ago to change the same alternator on the same engine in 4 different cars. The different in the cost and labour was more than 100% between in this case the Skoda to the Audi with VW and Seat sat inbetween. How can this be justified .... I've driven a Mondeo recently and was seriously impressed its a cracking drive and the interior was nice and certainly wasn't low in quality. My other half wanted a 1 series before she sat in it and thought it looked terrible and bland and the ride on an SE was poor at best. She got an Astra with more kit and a better ride and better in her opinion interior. Each to their own hey, the badge image means very little to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Going back to the original post, isn't it all about buying what suits you at the time? This can be an image thing or a practicality thing, it's just that people are frightened to say they are interested in their image (yet will still try to look good on a Saturday night). I generally buy cars for practical reasons but I also avoid some cars precisely because of their image. I would be very unlikely to buy a Jaguar or Mercedes, even if they were the perfect car for me, as they represent an attempt at projecting a certain status in my opinion and this is an aspect of our society that I don’t much like. Similarly, I have shied away from the 3 series in the past because they are so often driven selfishly and aggressively (and as status symbols) and carry an associated image, despite at times being the best car in their class. Now these stereotypes obviously are just that - stereotypes – and by no means apply to every owner, but they do have an impact. I very much liked the discretion of the RS6 (debadged) and I also quite like the whole anti-brand aspect of my Fabia. I suspect a lot of people who rail against people buying cars just because of their image are just as affected by image themselves, just a little more subtly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin275 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Not at all. I agree that he didn't buy a particular car because of its image, but that still left Saab, Volvo, Audi, Chrysler, Jaguar and Lexus to choose from! The Mercedes ticked all the boxes, including the one marked value. He wanted a car that was quiet, comfortable, spacious with a decent ride and a certain level of equipment within his budget. The problem with the Audi interior was the middle part of the dashboard. He didn't like the look of it and I kind of agree with him. I think all the fuss that is made about Audi interiors probably raised his expectations too much as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Going back to the original post, isn't it all about buying what suits you at the time? This can be an image thing or a practicality thing, it's just that people are frightened to say they are interested in their image (yet will still try to look good on a Saturday night). I generally buy cars for practical reasons but I also avoid some cars precisely because of their image. I would be very unlikely to buy a Jaguar or Mercedes, even if they were the perfect car for me, as they represent an attempt at projecting a certain status in my opinion and this is an aspect of our society that I don’t much like. Similarly, I have shied away from the 3 series in the past because they are so often driven selfishly and aggressively (and as status symbols) and carry an associated image, despite at times being the best car in their class. Now these stereotypes obviously are just that - stereotypes – and by no means apply to every owner, but they do have an impact. I very much liked the discretion of the RS6 (debadged) and I also quite like the whole anti-brand aspect of my Fabia. I suspect a lot of people who rail against people buying cars just because of their image are just as affected by image themselves, just a little more subtly. [/ QUOTE ] Best stick to your Scoda M8, be anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 The thing with Audi interiors is that what looks like sheer understated quality to one person looks like an awful lot of bland (but admittedly well made & fitted) plastic to another. I hate the A6 dash in anything other than black - the 2004 show cars were metallic violet (probably Akoya?) with beige interiors - and they looked dreadful! There's also alot of perception when it comes to quality. I don't honestly think that Ford/Vx are much worse these days. Alot of the Japs are trying but failing in the style department, with the exception of Lexus and (I would say this though wouldn't I ) the Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Crikey, All this arguing is bringing a new meaning to the title of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin275 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] This isnt' a bash Audi or Merc or anything thread. You have just re-stated why indeed that Audi's, Mercs, BMWs etc. are all over priced in comparison to something like a Ford, Seat, Skoda or Toyota. Its the badge plain and simple. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you, but that isn't always the case. Unless you want to kill yourself with depreciation and end up spending more in the long run, then you have to buy a car with a decent badge if you want something of a certain size. The same thing doesn't apply if you're looking at a 3 series/1 series/A4/A3/C Class etc [ QUOTE ] My other half wanted a 1 series before she sat in it and thought it looked terrible and bland and the ride on an SE was poor at best. She got an Astra with more kit and a better ride and better in her opinion interior. Each to their own hey, the badge image means very little to her. [/ QUOTE ] Now that's interesting! Why did she want a 1 series in the first place? Surely you're not saying it is because of the styling My wife was the opposite, she wanted a 5 door Golf GTI in black (she is quite specific!) before she drove the 130, which changed her mind completely. The badge image means very little to her as well, she had a Megane before the 130 and has had numerous Peugeots over the years. If we'd decided to go sensible rather than fun then she wanted a Grand Scenic.... Even more off topic, but I like the Astra and would probably go for one over a Golf. My neighbour has a blue 1.9cdti SRI 5 door which looks really smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Honda have yet to have a single failure on a VTEC engine. Not a single dead fully replaced engine. No German manufacturer can claim that. [/ QUOTE ] Just to set this one straight (even though I'm quite happy to listen to VTEC praise all day long ) Honda have never had a 'warranty related' claim on a VTEC engine. Now I do believe as well, that this is limited purely to the VTEC mechanism and it's associated parts, but don't quote me on that. Interesting how this has thread has moved on since I went for lunch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Gee, MrMe! You're only 38yo and you are talking about feeling you are approaching middle-age!!? - Not so!!! You've got an old (mature) head on your shoulders but you're still very young - I'm old enough to be your (very immature) dad!! I agree with your post though . [/ QUOTE ] I also agree with MrME, but I AM already an old toss*r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] My other half wanted a 1 series before she sat in it and thought it looked terrible and bland and the ride on an SE was poor at best. She got an Astra with more kit and a better ride and better in her opinion interior. Each to their own hey, the badge image means very little to her. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Now that's interesting! Why did she want a 1 series in the first place? Surely you're not saying it is because of the styling My wife was the opposite, she wanted a 5 door Golf GTI in black (she is quite specific!) before she drove the 130, which changed her mind completely. The badge image means very little to her as well, she had a Megane before the 130 and has had numerous Peugeots over the years. If we'd decided to go sensible rather than fun then she wanted a Grand Scenic.... Even more off topic, but I like the Astra and would probably go for one over a Golf. My neighbour has a blue 1.9cdti SRI 5 door which looks really smart [/ QUOTE ] She thinks the Golf looked bland and yes she as I do liked the styling of the 1 series. She just didn't like the interior. It didn't help that we first sat in a poverty spec car that was sat in the showroom with no climate etc. She likes the styling of the Astra, the Auto lights, rain sensors, part leather, good stereo, interior light pack etc. etc.. and a very refined 1.7 CDTi engine thats averaging 50.4MPG. Oh and at 9 months and 12k old we got it for less than 10k meaning we can spend plenty on other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin275 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 The 1 series interior is not at its best in basic spec. It needs climate at least and preferably leather to really lift it. Add in the Sports seats and other M Sport trinkets like the steering wheel and you have a very modern, sharp looking interior imho. You’ll have to excuse my surprise, I couldn’t believe that someone on TSN appreciated the 1 series styling. My neighbour paid about £12k for his SRi with full leather (6,000 miles, 10 months old), which seems like pretty good value to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 If I like something I say so ... no sheep here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] If Audi drivers don’t buy on image, then I really don’t understand why anyone buys an A4 instead of a Passat. ... but why buy an A4 2.0TDI over a Passat 2.0TDI??? The only thing, other than image, that I can think of is the styling. However, that’s subjective and even though I think the Passat is a more modern looking car than a standard A4, outside and in, I’m not including that in my reasoning! I won’t list all the reasons why a Passat is a better car than an A4, because this is TSN after all, but image has to be the main reason unless my requirements are so different to everyone else’s. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmm. I'd by an A4 over a passat any day. They are nicer, better made, classier finish, nicer lines/styling etc. Yes they share the same engine, but the Passat in our carpark vs mine (same engine) and the A4 wins again. It's quieter. Sure, that's probably just more padding to dull the noise, but it is. No doubt you'll disagree and all BMW owners will start having a field day..... I wish people on TSN would drop the badge thing. It's doing my fecking head in. Have you thought that some on here buy their cars based on WHAT THEY LIKE?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 What's the fun in that? Edited to add: The fun in dropping the badge thing. It's one of TSN's favourite arguments. Can somebody start a 4x4 and property thread, please? Oh, and if we could invite MAstra along... [ QUOTE ] Best stick to your Skoda M8, be anonymous [/ QUOTE ]Indeed, one of the reasons it suits me - it doesn't make sense to have a premium badge car in a high car crime area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 In what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Post with AS seem to roll and roll (search back- see "I've put my dummy back" thread) . You ran off on hols, MAstra appeared and I got stroppy, The curse of the Smitten Cleared you mail yet, waiting for advert replies (hint- do it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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