garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And it is - according to the vast majority of serious reviews - still the best in its class. [/ QUOTE ] But being best in class has no bearing on a car's image, so we're right back to square one [/ QUOTE ] Aw bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Absolutley, the more the merrier As for the E90 - not my cup of tea but I'd have a 5 series any day of the week. The only thing with the BM though is they have forgotten to link up the drive to front wheels as well [/ QUOTE ] Funnily enough they have produced 4WD 3 and 5-series for the European market but not for the UK, not enough demand for it to justify developing a right hand drive version of it. I do kind of wonder why Audi's aren't rear wheel drive as standard, as they have inferior packaging to the VW when it comes to front wheel drive, might as well use it to improve handling and differentiate it from the rest of the VAG products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 But surely a car is capable of multi-tasking these days (after all, I can, just)? Why not drive through the front wheels and steer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Funnily enough they have produced 4WD 3 and 5-series for the European market but not for the UK, not enough demand for it to justify developing a right hand drive version of it. [/ QUOTE ] And in North America... it's called xDrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Is this still going on? Lets just get it over with. Lets have a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Come on then, Geordie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Come on then, Geordie.... [/ QUOTE ] Ok gayboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 I haven't even worked out what side I'm batting for in this one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I do kind of wonder why Audi's aren't rear wheel drive as standard [/ QUOTE ] The engine is the wrong way round in the A4. If the rumour mongers are to be believed, this will change come the B8. Whether that means they'll go to RWD, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I haven't even worked out what side I'm batting for in this one ? [/ QUOTE ] RWD;BMW... you knows it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] But surely a car is capable of multi-tasking these days (after all, I can, just)? Why not drive through the front wheels and steer? [/ QUOTE ] Corrupts the steering feel Increases total car weight Increases front tyre wear Moves centre of gravity forwards contributing to understeer Decreases power 'at the wheels' and fuel economy due to frictional loses (in a 4 wheel drive setup v.s. FWD or RWD) Increases probability of a failure due to an increased drivetrain complexity and a greater number of mechanical parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I haven't even worked out what side I'm batting for in this one ? [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I do kind of wonder why Audi's aren't rear wheel drive as standard [/ QUOTE ] The engine is the wrong way round in the A4. If the rumour mongers are to be believed, this will change come the B8. Whether that means they'll go to RWD, who knows? [/ QUOTE ] Actually I think its the right way round in the A4, A6 and A8, notice the engine running front to back in the A6 cutaway To drive the front wheels the drive has to be rotated through 90degrees just as it has to with a FR layout car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But you've never owned a B7 A4 Anyway, race you round the bends then [/ QUOTE ] No I havnt owned a B7 Milo. And I wouldnt. But I was working for Audi when it Launched and have driven them alot. Infact Ive nearly driven as many examples as you. I dont race its silly and childish and you would only loose. [/ QUOTE ] So why did you not say you worked for Audi in your previous quote and also provide the models you have driven I have not driven a passat and never will, does not seem logical that Audi/VW would make the passat better than A4 considering they make both vehicles. [/ QUOTE ] Quite simply because VW and Audi design / build there cars completely seperately. They might use the same parts bin but its generally up to each what they do more or less. Some VWs are actually better designed / built quality wise than Audis, its part of the reason that the current Golf is about to be changed far before its meant to be because its costing far to much to build and they aren't making enough money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Increases probability of a failure due to an increased drivetrain complexity and a greater number of mechanical parts. [/ QUOTE ] Unless you build it properly like Subaru do. Valid points though - and all pay offs for the extra traction. (Which does not mean more grip in the corners on dry tarmac!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Quite simply because VW and Audi design / build there cars completely seperately. They might use the same parts bin but its generally up to each what they do more or less. Some VWs are actually better designed / built quality wise than Audis, its part of the reason that the current Golf is about to be changed far before its meant to be because its costing far to much to build and they aren't making enough money on it. [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Without wishing to offend anyone... Lets be honest, a Passat is about THE most boring car in the world. Jim had a purpose for his and it serves it admirably from what I hear, but they're not exactly a choice that have your blood pumping. I hate my A4 Avant, but I'd choose it over a new Passat again. Apart from anything, it looks nicer IMO. That said, I'd not have either. I'd have an E46/E90 Tourer 320d before both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] So does that mean you disagree or you've run out of arguments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashleyadam Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] So does that mean you disagree or you've run out of arguments? [/ QUOTE ] Come on Garcon what do you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But surely a car is capable of multi-tasking these days (after all, I can, just)? Why not drive through the front wheels and steer? [/ QUOTE ] Corrupts the steering feel Increases total car weight Increases front tyre wear Moves centre of gravity forwards contributing to understeer Decreases power 'at the wheels' and fuel economy due to frictional loses (in a 4 wheel drive setup v.s. FWD or RWD) Increases probability of a failure due to an increased drivetrain complexity and a greater number of mechanical parts. [/ QUOTE ] It was said tongue in cheek The reason I went for quattro is I drove a front wheel drive A4 for 3 years. That said, in response to your points re 4WD: "Inreases car weight" - for me, 50 kg. Feck all unless you intend competing in the touring car championship. To put it inperspective, my car with only a bit of fuel is lighter than the 2WD equivalent that has just filled up. The quattro version of my car (identical engines/performance) is faster 0-60 so no noticeable loss of power there then. Top speed suffers. By 2 mph. As for reliabilty Nearly every argument about FWD vs RWD on here has come to same conclusion. RWD gives better driver feedback and usually results in a more balanced car etc. I don't think anyone disputes that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 And my response was tongue in cheek too I just prefer rear wheel drive and thats just me, I never particularly enjoyed my earlier cars and I've driven front wheel drive cars since owning my MX-5 and for anything other than hatchbacks where getting as much space out of as smaller footprint is the priority I don't think its worth it. My friend had an A6 2.4 FWD as a courtesy car when his A3 was in for work and it was horrendous, I know its not supposed to be a small sports car but you couldn't get any of its power down in the first two gears and when the traction control kicked in it could be just plain dangerous, trying to pull away from a damp uphill junction where the MX-5 would get away quickly with a hint of wheel spin (handy for those small gaps when its busy) the A6 would cut power completely which could be nasty if you've got someone bearing down on you. And this is a car which has the engine mounted correctly for rear wheel drive, has a transmission tunnel built into it because its AVAILABLE with the rear wheels driven, and has suspension geometry that can cope with it, so why don't they do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] So does that mean you disagree or you've run out of arguments? [/ QUOTE ] Come on Garcon what do you think! [/ QUOTE ] Run out of arguments then.. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelwind101 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Funnily enough they have produced 4WD 3 and 5-series for the European market but not for the UK, not enough demand for it to justify developing a right hand drive version of it. [/ QUOTE ] They might well do when the new Honda Legend appears (Acura in the USA) with 4x4 as standard and Infini due to do the door drop soon i think BMW will introduce 4x4 versions. See here AWD luxery sedans comparison http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/VideosCategoryIndex/category=Comparison%20Tests#1 (right now it doesnt appear to be working though....oopps!!) And in North America... it's called xDrive. [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelwind101 Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 This is the kinda test we want to see on Top Gear, REAL REVIEWS!! This may contrast many peoples views on americans. Oh dont you love the US prices!! Audi did ok though, cheap too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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