eieio Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 hi all new to forum and enjoying mkv r32 over in oz. ive noticed via searches the haldex upgrade has taken up alot of forum space already but am interested to hear thoughts on the orange HPP controller (which of course keeps both axles engaged under brakes vs blue which disengages under brakes). concede car may handle differently in snow (which isnt a big issue here in nth oz) but surely the orange HPP is closer in handling to a wrx or evo which if i am not mistaken is full time 4wd and esp in the evo's case has excellent handling under brakes. have i missed something? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan32 Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Welcome to the 'Smoke. I may be mistaken, but I think the orange HPP is for gen 1(?) or the MKIVs and not for gen 2 which is in the MKV. You can get a HPP for the MKV which is 3 way switchable (from inside the car) and the sport mode of this should be closer to the orange HPP settings. You still won't be at full time 4wd like the evo or wrx as the Haldex doesn't work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Welcome to the 'Smoke. I may be mistaken, but I think the orange HPP is for gen 1(?) or the MKIVs and not for gen 2 which is in the MKV. You can get a HPP for the MKV which is 3 way switchable (from inside the car) and the sport mode of this should be closer to the orange HPP settings. You still won't be at full time 4wd like the evo or wrx as the Haldex doesn't work like that. [/ QUOTE ] Except on the new TT and poss S3 (?) where Audi have decided to have the Haldex controller reprogrammed so it runs a 60/40 power split all the time under normal driving yet also able to transfer power for and aft when required !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Not from what I read Six? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 The Haldex system just doesn't work like that Six. It's a variable torque transfer system, so you would never be able to set it to 60/40 (or any other percentage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKLooney Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The Haldex system just doesn't work like that Six. It's a variable torque transfer system, so you would never be able to set it to 60/40 (or any other percentage). [/ QUOTE ] I know the R32 is setup so that the front two wheels have 100% torque under normal driving conditions. Surely this is not fixed in stone?? it must be adjustable?? surely?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 With the Haldex 4WD system, it's the electronic switch that decides when to throw the Haldex clutch in and by how much. The original HPP upgrade made the process quicker. The reason that you can have a switchable HPP for the Mk5 is that all it is doing is telling the switch to throw when it gets a different reading from the ECU. You can't set a percentage split front to rear. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKLooney Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The reason that you can have a switchable HPP for the Mk5 is that all it is doing is telling the switch to throw when it gets a different reading from the ECU. [/ QUOTE ] So if the switch is thrown constantly, then you'll have constant 4wd? So what controls the split? hydraulics? controlled by what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs32 Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] So what controls the split? hydraulics? controlled by what? [/ QUOTE ] I have a full PDF file on the Haldex system - if anyone wants it then PM me your email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] So if the switch is thrown constantly, then you'll have constant 4wd? So what controls the split? hydraulics? controlled by what? [/ QUOTE ] Yes and no - I know! With the Haldex system, you always have 4WD, it's just variable split front to rear, unlike the Quattro system, which is a fixed split, but with some clever electronics to split the torque when required. Just before the rear diff, there is a little silver/blue/take your pick box, which is electronically controlled. This is connected to the ECU in a roundabout way, which is constantly measuring forward speed, wheel rotation, steering angle etc etc. None of the controller upgrades add any more bias to the rear - it's all about the speed with which the controller engages the Haldex clutch in the small box in front of the diff - put the Mk5 option on the "track" setting, and it's effectively instant. On the standard Mk4 and Mk5 R32 the standard box takes it's time before engaging. This is a very hairy test, but try running your car round a track and you can hear the Haldex clutch engage about two seconds into a corner. I say try it on a track, because when you've got the hang of a corner and are throwing it round consistently, you've got more time to listen out for what's happening. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 [ QUOTE ] The Haldex system just doesn't work like that Six. It's a variable torque transfer system, so you would never be able to set it to 60/40 (or any other percentage). [/ QUOTE ] I know exactly how Haldex works, I've owned two haldex cars, however (and I was surprised when I read this) but according to Audi the new TT Sport will be permanent 4WD and run 40/60 split Haldex driven system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs32 Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 in addition to the PDF file folks can visit http://www.haldex-traction.com/default.htm for more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 The way it was explained to me is that the ECU of the Haldex controller is programme to think its on all the time, so it runs it a split power mode instead of running the fronts until power is needed to the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eieio Posted November 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 i understand the response time is quicker compared to stock haldex but is it the case on the upgraded blue haldex units for mk5 that info from the throttle position sensor is used to engage the haldex ie under harder acceleration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindaloo Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Looking forward to trying out my GenII upgrade next week, it gets fitted at Awesome next Thursday, although I purchased it second hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKLooney Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Except on the new TT and poss S3 (?) where Audi have decided to have the Haldex controller reprogrammed so it runs a 60/40 power split all the time under normal driving yet also able to transfer power for and aft when required !! [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i understand the response time is quicker compared to stock haldex but is it the case on the upgraded blue haldex units for mk5 that info from the throttle position sensor is used to engage the haldex ie under harder acceleration. [/ QUOTE ] So does this mean the new TT & S3 have a 60/40 split during normal driving conditions? Or does it still not work like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs32 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 eieio - you have PM regarding the PDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32North Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Except on the new TT and poss S3 (?) where Audi have decided to have the Haldex controller reprogrammed so it runs a 60/40 power split all the time under normal driving yet also able to transfer power for and aft when required !! [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i understand the response time is quicker compared to stock haldex but is it the case on the upgraded blue haldex units for mk5 that info from the throttle position sensor is used to engage the haldex ie under harder acceleration. [/ QUOTE ] So does this mean the new TT & S3 have a 60/40 split during normal driving conditions? Or does it still not work like that? [/ QUOTE ] Having dug about a bit more it sems the only info Google would throw up is that it was the MKI TT Sport 1 that had a 50/50 split and the MKI TT Sport 2 was meant to get a 60/40 split - test drivers of the TT sport mentioned that the 50/50 split was quire right and that a 60/40 split as per the forth coming MK2 Sport would resolve some off the lack of feel the 50/50 split had. Nothing about it being the new TT or new S3, however Haldex controller is fully programmable and they can dial in whatever setting is desired - apparently!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs32 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 [ QUOTE ] however Haldex controller is fully programmable and they can dial in whatever setting is desired - apparently!! [/ QUOTE ] does the RS4 use Haldex ? the race feature with the Audi and human climber on Top Gear mentions that the RS4's torque is rear-biased ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisel Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Isn't the Quattro used in the longitudinal engined Audis like the RS4 based on the Torsen system instead of the Haldex, with direct drive to the rear and power sent to the front according to setup & control? Hmm. Hope that made sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs32 Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 quite possibly - wasn't sure about the latest model RS4 [edit] thinking about it Audi wouldn't just go and change the basis for the RS4's setup for the latest model - must be Torsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 All Audis with Quattro except the TT, S3 and A3 Quattros use the Torsen-based permanent 4WD system. Torsen is the name of the centre diff, which does the work of splitting torque front to rear. It's a completely different set-up to the Haldex. Audi changed the bias on the RS4 to give 40 front and 60 rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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