drpellypo Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 All similar prices, but which is the best? Opinions gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzbitt Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Well the Cupra and Type R are 2 totally different driving experiances. Have a test drive of both and compare. Have you driven any powerful Vtec engined car before? Not everyone like the revving nature as you have to take it above 6k to get into full swing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Haven't driven the new 'R but having had the old one for 4 years (up until 3 months ago) & reading quite a bit on it, I would imagine it's like the old one but with the last 10% of purity/hardness traded for comfort/practicality. The engine/gearbox are the big things on the Type R. The gearbox, if it's as good as the old one, will be different gravy compared to most things under £lots - just so fast and rifle bolt accuracy. The engine is definitely a love/hate thing and you must be prepared to learn how to drive it correctly (if you do, you won't notice the 'torque thing' 95%+ of the time). I loved the old one and thought it was great fun (6000+ VTEC scream )but it can be a bit loud/tiring if you aren't giving it the beans and are doing miles. The one problem is that the gearing is even shorter now than it was before and that's short!!! After ditching the CTR I got an ST. Different animal altogether but a very good all-rounder (especially for the £17-18k it will cost you) and to my mind does 85-90%+ of what the Golf GTI/R32 do (if you ignore the AWD and the last 10% of build quality) for about 75% of the up front cost. Points of note: Lots of people will adopt a snobby attitude and decide you must by definition be a chav - Not true! You will spend a lot on fuel - 25mpg is about going rate but cane it and it will fall. Sounds good - Thanks to the engine & accoustic chamber it sounds, to my ears at least, like a mix of Quattro, Impreza and a hint of small V8 (rumble and or warble, depending on how you're driving). Can be chipped/amended to sound better and give anywhere from 250bhp to 330bhp (some like Wolf give a warranty to replace the Ford one as well) - if you want to. Performance - I would guess at somewhere between GTI/R32 (or FR/Cupra). Isn't mega from rest as the torque is limited in the first 3 gears but once on the move it goes fairly well in all gears - check out the evo in gear times against most of the opposition and against some better machinery - not bad at all for the money Comfy with pliant suspension and decent steering. However, the weight of the I5 is noticeable compared to a CTR and that does mean that the handling lacks that last few degrees of firmness & sportiness. Thing is, how much time do you really spend driving the car on it's door handles? Build quality isn't up to VAG levels but it is perfectly acceptable, especially given the price. However, you will probably get a few rattles/squeaks to be fixed by the fairly average Ford dealer network Decent kit levels. Residual values will be below the Honda and probably on a par with the SEAT but if you make sure you get a decent discount or get an ex demo/cancelled order then it all more or less balances out (and that would go against the Golf as well). Could get an ST-2 for @ £17.5k or an ST-3 for a grand more (if you like leather and don't play MP3s/have an IPod). Did I mention the sound/fuel consumption If you want more info, you could go over to Focus ST owners club , although you need to temper their views a little (as one sided as some of the VAG boys on here ). Leon - No idea! Never driven one and don't fancy the interior or the looks (both a bit nearly but not quite IMHO). Cupra should be rapid though At the end of the day, as said the best advice is to drive them all (not that I followed this, of course , although this wasn't helped at all by the attitude of the VAG/BMW dealers I encountered). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpellypo Posted April 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Thanks for the advice so far. The high revving I'm used to (possibly) as I had an MX5 for a couple of years, and it, although not to such a degree, needed to be up in the rev range. I'm baffling my own head now. I've gone from buying the Passat to realising I want something more fun so deciding to get an A4, then finding out I coulnd't get a company car, so ditching that idea, to deciding I wanted a Legacy, and then, when I was out yesterday, I saw a new Leon, and went 'phwoaar!' and then started reading reviews saying the honda was better, then reviews saying the Ford was. I know one thing. I don't want a Vauxhall. But I do think I've now decided I want a sporty hatch. I've got a massive car, and there really is no need. Added to that, it was nearly 22k, and for that, I could get something a lot more fun, and save a few quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpellypo Posted April 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Oh, and of course, Jeremy Clarkson went and chucked the Mazda3 MPS into the equation! Nasty interior though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 Hang on until winter and you can throw an Impreza into the equation too... I like the Focus ST the best of those listed - but it's bloody thirsty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Hang on until winter and you can throw an Impreza into the equation too... I like the Focus ST the best of those listed - but it's bloody thirsty. [/ QUOTE ] Is that the old Impreza or the Hyundai Tell me about the Focus' thirst! That 25mpg is a mix of driving (but mostly M-Way and sat in a que on M-Way driving). Mine swings between 23-25 with high 20's available on a run - some claim to have seen above 30 but then some people think Elvis is still alive It does get better as the miles go on and the pay off is the noise (for at hot hatch, at least). Mazda MPS3 - Hmm. Very fast but apparently has difficulty putting the power down (plus it's no looker). If I were going for Mazda I'd go for an ex demo MPS6 - same engine, similar price but 4WD, discrete and somewhat underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 It's not a Hyundai! It's a Kia! Quite like the MPS6 myself - almost a direct alternative to the Legacy I guess. I believe Prodrive may be breathing on the MPS3 soon - could be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpellypo Posted April 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 The 6MPS is out of my price range, so not even getting a look in. Impreza, I dunno, I just don't think it would suit me. I think I'd look ridiculous in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 FI vs NA, you can guess what my choice would normally be anyday of the week. However, after driving the FN2 Civic, it probably wouldn't take too much persuasion to have the ST instead. I'm yet to drive one (or the Leon for that matter but Seats have never interested me in the slightest) but I reckon i might like something with a turbot again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
encee Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I know one thing. I don't want a Vauxhall. [/ QUOTE ] It`s a great shame that you don`t want a Vauxhall mate. I`ve owned a CTR, Focus ST, Mk V Golf GTI, and driven the new Type R. Today, I`ve also driven the Astra VXR, and IMHO, it`s better than the lot of them in terms of power (and delivery), handling, and road-holding. In a word.......fantastic ! I`m now going to bugger off to a quiet corner and have a chat with myself..... In all seriousness, if you can get over the percieved image of the thing, you may well find what you`re looking for. By the way, I loved my old CTR, but the new one is so far-removed (and watered down), that it`s actually worse than the (excellent) car it`s replaced. Not often that happens with someone like Honda......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 You must seriously have a chat with yourself The handling I could easily imagine since it's likely to be the most hardcore of the list. However, there have been questions raised in the past about power delivery/output etc and I would be unsure as to whether these have truly gone away - I think you must have had a good one! The other things that would (and did) put me off the Astra are the horrid expanse of silver plastic AKA stereo, A/C etc and the equally bad gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
encee Posted April 6, 2007 Report Share Posted April 6, 2007 Quite interesting, this one D1MAC. I`ve driven a couple now, and both felt pretty rapid (or should that be "rabid" ?) Anyhow, they really flew, and picked up from almost nothing. There was power in every situation....very torquey ! The silver plastic`s gone now, as well, and been replaced with piano-black. Much better to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpellypo Posted April 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 The Vauxhall's are absolutely stunning, there's no doubt about that. I remember the old Cav SRI my dad had, and it's engine, handling etc were amazing. I just can't get past the image thing. Up here having a sporty Astra puts you in one category and one category only, and it's not one I'm ever going to be in! I keep seeing the Seats, and they do look really really nice. They are rare too, which is always a cool thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 Cupra is fun. 1375 kg, 199 CO2, 240bhp at the wheels (Seat net have had a few rolling roaded at 265 bhp at crank). Four door car with 2 door style, great free extras, few rip off options and it does 25-35 mpg. £10k cheaper than the S3 and the same engine (honestly) minus a tweak on the chip and minus 4 wd. Better weight and in my eyes better external styling than the S3- Although Audi internals are in a different league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Quite interesting, this one D1MAC. I`ve driven a couple now, and both felt pretty rapid (or should that be "rabid" ?) Anyhow, they really flew, and picked up from almost nothing. There was power in every situation....very torquey ! The silver plastic`s gone now, as well, and been replaced with piano-black. Much better to look at. [/ QUOTE ] 'Tis indeed. I never went for the test drive when I was shopping (as I was leaning towards the ST anyway, plus the dash/gearbox and possibility of having one as a Co car in the future combined to put me off sufficiently not to bother). However, I've read enough in forums, websites, magazines etc about issues with the Astra's engine to put me off. The patchy power & torque delivery has been regularly mentioned plus the poor performance (for weight & claimed output - 15bhp more and 100kg+ less than an ST but no quicker and actually slower in gear - Hmm). It just sounds like it's been tuned by a couple of blokes in a shed and not one of the two larges car companies in the world. I suppose this could be fixed to some degree by a trip to 888 but I would always be wary of engine longevity and especially the gearbox. Yes my gearbox experiences in the Astra are based on hire cars with 1/2 the power/torque but the fundamental building blocks are the same and these were so bad after 3k it was unreal. Now, if you could give the Astra an improved Honda engine/gearbox, ST/R32 soundtrack, S3 interior and Golf image, all wrapped up in a Leon sized price tag then the choice would be sooo much easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
encee Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 I never went for the test drive when I was shopping No substitute for your own, first-hand experience though mate. Genuinely surprised me how well it went, I must say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpellypo Posted April 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 TBH - the test drive I had in the Passat was all of about 5 minutes. I usually get in my mind what car I want and just buy it. Thing with the Seat is that you effectively get a fully loaded golf for much much less money. It's not just a couple of grand when you consider the Seat comes with Xenons etc as standard. I think I need to see the interior up close though because it looks awful in the pictures. Considering the Passat I have is pure luxury inside, I'm not sure I could cope with tacky plastic. Although I guess there's always the engine to make me feel better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I never went for the test drive when I was shopping No substitute for your own, first-hand experience though mate. Genuinely surprised me how well it went, I must say. [/ QUOTE ] I know but all the factors I mentioned, along with the fact that it was a 4 just meant that ultimately I couldn't get excited about it. While it may (or may not) have been slightly faster, in engineering and grin factor terms it was never going to get close to the Civic for me. Same goes for the Golf GTI really - only more than a 4 was ever going to float my boat (unless I'd been able to get a S2K!), hence plumping for the ST (the R32 being more than I wanted to spend and the 130i being too small and a little bit challenging looks wise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmcivic Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 hey just want to add that if its a power thing that you're after why not look at the jdm spec civic. The new one thats import only, has a quicker 0-60 time than all the cars metioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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