Omi Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I'm a bit of a Rossi fan. But to be honest, after his performance at the Mugello GP this last weekend, I'm thinking he may just be the greatest man ever on two wheels. Rossi'ites will agree, I'm sure, but I'm wondering if there's anyone who's considered outright better than him, historically... Also, imagine if you could put a bunch of great riders from across the sport on identical machines, who would come out on top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger_Irrelevant Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 A question for which there's no one answer. I'm a big Rossi fan too... I think he's a bit of a genius in fact. As technology has improved and bikes have got faster and faster, built and raced to ever tightening tolerances, then it follows (for me) that rider skill/reaction speed/technique must also improve. Therefore, in your "identical machines" scenario, given time to familiarise himself, I think he'd be tough to beat. In the back of my mind though, I have to take my hat off to the road racers. Truly fearless 'steely-eyed missile men' one and all. I doubt rossi would ever even consider doing an event like the TT, but I'd quite like to see how he got on round a closed road circuit, against a certain Monsieur Dunlop, on... i dunno... let's say identical R1's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 There is no doubt that Rossi is a genius but it could be argued there are genius's in almost every era. Agostini, Hailwood, Spencer, Lawson, Rainey, Doohan. But for me there are mitigating factors which count against all of these. Firstly, you need to look at the era they raced in - Agostini was able to compete in more than one championship (Spencer was the last to be able to do this) Next, we should take in to account the fact that the the best teams can attract and keep the best riders and increase their competitive advantage over other teams (making the riders appear better than they perhaps are (Yamaha - Lawson/Rainey and Honda Doohan) Next factor to consider in consistency across classes. All riders have to come up through the classes but few have managed to win all all levels like Rossi.... 1994 wins Italian Sports Production championship, aged 15; Cagiva 125cc 1995 wins Italian 125cc championship, aged 16; Aprilia RS 125 3rd in European 125cc championship 1996 125cc GP debut with Aprilia RS 125 (Malaysian GP) finish 9th 1997 * 125cc champion* wins 125cc world championship age 18 2nd youngest ever 125 champion - Aprilia RS 125 12 wins 1998 250cc debut with Aprilia RSW 250 runner-up in the championship 1999 * 250cc champion* wins 250cc world championship age 20 youngest ever 250 champion Aprilia RSW 250 2000 500cc GP debut with Honda 2 wins, 7 podiums 2001 * 500cc champion* 500cc GP with Honda NSR 500 record 10 wins, 11 podiums wins 500cc world championship age 22 the only rider besides Phil Read & Mike Hailwood to win all 3 class: Phil Read (125, 250, 500) and Mike Hailwood (250, 350, 500). 2002 * MotoGP champion* New MotoGP world, championship Honda factory team; Honda RC211 V5 wins first ever world MotoGP championship; age 23 record 11 wins; 8 poles 2003 * MotoGP champion* MotoGP with Honda 4 stroke won his 54th GP win at Domnington British GP; equalling Mick Doohan's career winning record (race win overturned 2 hours later) wins MotoGP world championship (at Malaysian GP; his 57th GP win) 9 race wins; 9 poles equals Agonisti's record of 22 consecutive podiums in premier class 2004 * MotoGP champion* joins Yamaha wins season opening race (S Africa); he is the first rider in history to win back-to-back races on different make bikes wins MotoGP world championship (at Australian GP; his 8th win of the year) the only rider besides Eddie Lawson to win consecutive premier class championship titles for different manufacturers 2005 * MotoGP champion* 2nd year with Yamaha ROSSI BECAME THE FIRST RIDER TO WIN 5 RACES WIN A ROW (Shanghai, Le Mans, Mugello, Catalunya, Assen) 77th career GP win; 40 poles wins MotoGP world championship 11 wins tests with Ferrari Formula 1 team 2006 3rd year with Yamaha tests again with Ferrari Formula 1 team (speculation that he may switch to Formula 1 in 2007) Finishes runner up after a traumatic and unlucky year. Rossi won 500cc and MotoGP championships for Honda (known to be the best bike out there). Honda always said it was their bike that won championships (Doohan proved that). Rossi disagreed and moved to Yamaha and won in his first year. This year he faces Honda and a visibly faster Ducati with a talented rider and much better (Bridgestone tyres) and he still can win. Its his ability to win on inferior bikes which places him apart from all the previous greats who rode for the best teams. For me the greatest tribute to Rossi is how his fellow riders regard him. They all know he is special. I have a video (The Doctor, the Tornado, and the Kentucky Kid) in which Colin Edwards admits no rider would ever admit that another rider is better than him - there is one exception - Rossi. And if a rider don't show respect for him he simply destroys them (Biaggi, Gibernau) Watch him race - He has the perfect style and technique on the bike - Andy Ibbott from the California Superbike school told me this. But he couldn't explain how he manages to pass top riders at full race speed without "block turning". He seems to find new limits to riding a bike....Neil Hodgson once remarked that he noticed Rossi had a unique line with his own black Darkies on the track, seperate from everyone else. Hodgson said he tried to copy the line - he just couldn't. Rossi is uniquely talented, regardless of bike, team, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, tyres or championship class - that for me seperates him from the names mentioned above. That he does all this whilst seemingly having playful fun and making fans of the entire world (Schumacher could never claim that) makes him the greatest motorcycle rider of all time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeDesmo Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Rossi is uniquely talented, regardless of bike, team, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, tyres or championship class - that for me seperates him from the names mentioned above. That he does all this whilst seemingly having playful fun and making fans of the entire world (Schumacher could never claim that) makes him the greatest motorcycle rider of all time.... [/ QUOTE ] I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 I think Rossi may well be the greatest road racer ever. Although Giacomo Agostini’s record does speak for itself. Agostini won the 350cc & 500cc titles seven years in succession. He also won 10 Isle of Man TTs.In total 15 Grand Prix World Championship titles and 122 Grand Prix victories. But for me the greatest motorcycle rider (not just the road) is Jean-Michel Bayle. After winning world motocross titles in 1988 in 125 and 1989 in 250, he decides to cross the Atlantic and to go to America, at the time considered the best motocross riders in the world. For his first season he finishes 2nd in the US Supercross championship. For his 2nd season, he becomes the only rider ever to win the Triple Crown: 250 supercross, 250 outdoor, and 500 outdoor titles in one year, establishing the record for victories in Supercross over one season. At the height of his success he then switched to the 250cc World road racing championship and then 500cc. He managed one pole position in the 250cc class and 2 poles in the 500cc division. He suffered a bad accident during the 2002 season and retired from road racing competition. JMB's ability to adapt to & be competitive in different things from European motocross, US supercross, road racing, Supermotard & trials is amazing. His road racing career was cut short and I doubt he would ever have reached the lofty heights of Rossi’s abilities, but I also doubt any other rider could have been so competitive in both off road and road disciplines as JMB. There are riders that dedicate their entire lives to road racing, and never make it as far as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 One thing to think about is the times and type of machinery people ride. Racing bikes in the 60s are very different things to MotoGP and the skills to ride them different. I remember reading about an English bike rider from the 20s/30s being interviewed. Asked whether he preferred the roller throttle or leather straps. He said he liked the strap becuase he'd pin it open and leave it. If he'd had a roller grip he'd have been temped to roll off for the bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2 Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Barry Sheene is up there with the greats imho How many people would keep going after suffering all the injuries he got RIP Bazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyMcC Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 Just watched the race last night. He the nadds, no question He was lucky tho? ....Lucky that I weren't there on my XR6! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32Ash Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 [ QUOTE ] How many people would keep going after suffering all the injuries he got [/ QUOTE ] Doohan. He had a leg mashed up so badly in a crash that he had to have it sewn to his other leg to keep it alive whilst it was repaired. The injured leg was then no use, so he finished his career with a thumb operated rear brake. I do agree about Sheene though, he did amazingly well to come back from his injuries didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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