Dixons motors in admin

[D1MAC]

Have to agree with Rustynuts on this one - shifting trade in values are a weapon in the dealer's armoury.

At the end of the day, while they do want to win the business, they still have a target margin on a deal just like every other business and will do all they can to protect that. They know full well that average joe public doesn't really know all that much about trade in values, isn't all that hot on the maths and will often trust people they shouldn't.

The best one is of course the ex-demo where the dealer slashes his throat to give you £1500 off that nearly new car you always promised yourself

[robin09]

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Then being honest with the customer isn't really important? "Your car's worth £8000 Sir, and that's what we'll give you for it against any car you buy from us!" is what I want to hear when I go buy a new motor. Anyone who tries shifting values back and forth between the sale and trade in just doesn't give me confidence in parting with my hard earned. And that's important to me. It's my money and dealers should really be pleased that I'm going to let them take it off me, not moving the goalposts a la "Arthur Daley" to take more of it than the next dealer I try. When I did actually buy the car in question, the salesman said straight up what my trade in was worth to him, period. Is that the wrong way to do business?

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But its a vicious circle, the fact that they were probably panic selling towards the end, and offering stupid deals, means other local garages miss out on that custom because they can't possibly match those deals if they want to make any money out of a sale, which means everyone loses.

[/ QUOTE ] ....except the customer. They seem to get a good deal.

I suspect you're a trader are you?

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The problem with giving you a bottom line value for your car, thats applicable to anything you buy, is that generally its vastly below the customers inflated self valuation. For example, if I have 2 cars in stock you like, one with 1500 margin in it, and another with 600 in it. And I said I'd give you 'x' for yours against either, isnt that being more dishonest than saying I can give you an extra 900 for yours against the first one?

And as far as 'service' orientated customers go, they're a dwindling breed. nowadays when someone says they received good service, it means they were offered more for their car than elsewhere. Price is by far the most valued attribute, hence internet sales increasing, where you dont actually receive any sort of customer service at all!

And in the long run, when more and more manufacturers go bust, and dealers with them, it will hurt all the customers as there is less competition available.

[cruiser647]

Survival of the fittest???

And Dixons weren't fit.

Besides, maybe we should wait to see if the books are balanced and honest..........with no 'finger dipping' marks??

[rothwell]

Whenever I'm dealing with customers I always value the car the same regardless of what they are buying. I don't mind doing deals at the end of the day, but there is nothing more I hate then when people come in waving printouts from drivethedeal or something asking me to match it. Why the hell would I want to do that, I'm not going to give a car away. I'm just saying that some, not all, but some of the customers I have to deal with don't seem to understand that we are a business and we are in it to make money, the same way that web designers make money from writing code. As a whole people on here seem relativley normal and generally understand but for example last year 3 Skoda dealers on the South coast when bust (part of a group) and we had a load of there customers complaining about this as now they have to travel much further, but they did get a good deal... Which is the reason why there is no Skoda dealer in Brighton now.

[robin09]

Exactly. The little groups won't be able to rely on loyal old customers to keep them afloat forever, and eventually we'll have a few businesses owning the majority of garages and there'll be bugger all competition for customers to play them against. Then they'll whinge about the good old days.

[jamief]

I presume you are a trader robin? You don't seem to realise that people are entitled to take THEIR money where they want, and haggle as much as they like. At the end of the day, they are doing YOU a favour by buying from you, so you should treat them with a little bit of respect!

[Rustynuts]

Maybe... just maybe it's the guys who pull the fast shuffle with prices here and there who're going out of business. That would be poetic justice wouldn't it. That's the way it looks from the real life example I gave you. The honest salesman managed to close a deal with me, and the shuffler went bankrupt. I don't see a problem with that.

The value of a trade in doesn't change dependant on any other car I'm buying. It's a static item. The practice of loading a cars price up and then coming down to what the customer and you can deal at is a different issue altogether. The customer isn't concerned that you have a car for sale at no less that £11000 (for example) because you bought it at £10500 and that's the profit margin you have to play with. If your car cost more to buy than dealer down the road who bought his at lets say £10000, then why is the customer at fault for saying to you that he's seen another one cheaper and unless you can match it he'll go elsewhere. But putting extra value here and taking it away there you might confuse the odd person occasionally, but just because it works and salesmen do it, it doesn't mean that we all have to roll over and accept it.

Businesses come and go, and demanding the customer accept confusion tactics to allow the company to stay in business isn't right.

[rothwell]

At the end of the day, I can refuse to sell a car if I don't like their attitude.

I have actually refused to sell someone a car before because he was just not worth the hassle as he had been in 10 times wasted hours & hours of my time and I just got fed up with him.

People can take their money wherever they like, if they decide they want to buy their car from a dealer 300 miles away because they got another £300 off from the best price they got locally perhaps they should take their money back to the dealer 300 miles away when it goes wrong. Customer loyalty is something I like, I always look after our returning customers very well, I offer them a good deal, pay as much as possible for theirs and try and sneak free servicing through for them, and they never argue over the price. However new customer who storm in demanding £2k off because he saw a Belgium import on the internet for that price, I do get very annoyed. I get especially annoyed when I offer them the market value of the their car and they insist that it is worth more, how the hell do they know what the trade value of a car is. I had a guy waste 3 hours of my life on Tuesday looking at a car, I did everything for him but he would not sign up because he thought his car was worth £4,000 it was actually worth £2,800 but after a good 40 mins of nothing I eventually went to £3,590 just to do a deal with him and still nothing.... Customers don't seem to realise that there is not a infinite amount of money in a deal, I had given him everything I had in the deal, yet he still wanted £500. He insisted I met him in the middle and go halves with him, but half of zero is still zero. I'm all wound up now, think I might phone him and see what he has actually bought.

[Mook]

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I presume you are a trader robin? You don't seem to realise that people are entitled to take THEIR money where they want, and haggle as much as they like. At the end of the day, they are doing YOU a favour by buying from you, so you should treat them with a little bit of respect!

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I disagree - if you want a business deal to work well, it's about the relationship between you and the customer, including mutual respect.

If you don't get any from a customer, I'd rather not have the custom, thanks. Too many car buyers think they have to screw a dealer into the ground on price. Well trained car sales people won't let that happen - it's about selling the value of buying a car from their business as opposed to anyone elses.

Oh, and no, I don't work in the motor trade and, tbh, there's no way I could deal in business to consumer sales

[robin09]

JamieF to answer your question yes I am. I dont think my opinion would have been worth much salt if I didnt have first hand knowledge of what I was preaching.

At the risk of making this sound like Motor Traders Anonymous, all I can say is, of course I'd expect anyone to look around and get the best possible deal when buying a car/can of beans/watch/t-shirt etc. I know I do!

But thats missing the point. Often when I hear a story of how someone was unhappy with the service they received at a garage, usually thats just one side of the argument.

And Mook, I think I actually agree with you!

[Gareth]

And as far as 'service' orientated customers go, they're a dwindling breed. nowadays when someone says they received good service, it means they were offered more for their car than elsewhere. Price is by far the most valued attribute, hence internet sales increasing, where you dont actually receive any sort of customer service at all!

100% agree and well put

I'm all for customers getting the best deal but never at the expense of service, professionalism and the facts of how good/bad/indifferent a deal might be.

Too many people fail to value service over price-one aspect that the WWW does tend to promote. But then with the WWW so many business's offering great value and service wouldn't exist so it then comes down to the human touch.

[Mook]

Agree with that as well

[D1MAC]

I'd agree as well but good service and approach at a sensible cost is something that is sadly lacking in the UK, in general and in the motor trade.

There is good & excellent out there but far too often there is a lack of desire to do things properly, a serious lack of transparency and an over bearing focus on short term profits.

The only retorts the consumer really has is to go elsewhere and/or try and fight back on the price front.

Transparency IMO is something that along with some focus on service, would really help motor trade sales. I might be out on a limb here but I would really appreciate seeing exactly where profit is being made - i.e. what my trade in is really worth and where the profit is in the car they are trying to sell me. I have no issue whatsoever in the trade making a profit but I do have an issue with them trying to rip me off.

I have had that happen in a major way to the extent of quite a few £k in a £15k deal. I obviously knew straight away they were trying to rob me blind (but they didn't know that I did) and just walked away but many other people would have innocently taken the offer, believing that the 'experts' were doing all they could for them.

Having said all this, for the last 2 cars I actually bought (Honda, Ford) the sales people have been fine. Sensible trade-ins, good service and a generally pleasant experience. Haven't dealt with Ford after-sales yet but Honda's service department was absolutely dire (completely hopeless and obviously well versed in Dick Turpin's adventures) and was one of the reasons I got rid in the end.

[Booster]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm all for customers getting the best deal but never at the expense of service, professionalism and the facts of how good/bad/indifferent a deal might be.

Too many people fail to value service over price-one aspect that the WWW does tend to promote. But then with the WWW so many business's offering great value and service wouldn't exist so it then comes down to the human touch

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed Sir!

We have absolutely no web presence whatsoever and continue to increase our profits each year in a highly competitive industry. We work on 70% repeat business and spend precisely nothing on advertising. If we didn't give the service we do we would have been out of business years ago. Our cutomers know that our first quote is our best quote and they often know that there maybe another company that is .5% APR cheaper than us but they will try and cross sell them loads of other products and will continually mailshot them with crap. We don't.

[cruiser647]

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[ QUOTE ]

I'm all for customers getting the best deal but never at the expense of service, professionalism and the facts of how good/bad/indifferent a deal might be.

Too many people fail to value service over price-one aspect that the WWW does tend to promote. But then with the WWW so many business's offering great value and service wouldn't exist so it then comes down to the human touch

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed Sir!

We have absolutely no web presence whatsoever and continue to increase our profits each year in a highly competitive industry. We work on 70% repeat business and spend precisely nothing on advertising. If we didn't give the service we do we would have been out of business years ago. Our cutomers know that our first quote is our best quote and they often know that there maybe another company that is .5% APR cheaper than us but they will try and cross sell them loads of other products and will continually mailshot them with crap. We don't.

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That is the same with any business.

For instance:-

When I used to sell stuff at Saturday computer fairs for my mates shop, we got plenty of repeat business - and one customer even said 'That's what I like about you, reassuringly expensive!' and promptly bought loads of gear as usual. He could have saved a few quid going elsewhere in the hall, but would not have had the banter, the knowledge, the safety of knowing he can return it if it goes wrong.

If you cannot look after your customers, then you have no chance of surviving. Dixons surely saw this coming and surely could have taken steps to avert it???

[Golfer]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm all for customers getting the best deal but never at the expense of service, professionalism and the facts of how good/bad/indifferent a deal might be.

Too many people fail to value service over price-one aspect that the WWW does tend to promote. But then with the WWW so many business's offering great value and service wouldn't exist so it then comes down to the human touch

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed Sir!

We have absolutely no web presence whatsoever and continue to increase our profits each year in a highly competitive industry. We work on 70% repeat business and spend precisely nothing on advertising. If we didn't give the service we do we would have been out of business years ago. Our cutomers know that our first quote is our best quote and they often know that there maybe another company that is .5% APR cheaper than us but they will try and cross sell them loads of other products and will continually mailshot them with crap. We don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the same with any business.

For instance:-

When I used to sell stuff at Saturday computer fairs for my mates shop, we got plenty of repeat business - and one customer even said 'That's what I like about you, reassuringly expensive!' and promptly bought loads of gear as usual. He could have saved a few quid going elsewhere in the hall, but would not have had the banter, the knowledge, the safety of knowing he can return it if it goes wrong.

If you cannot look after your customers, then you have no chance of surviving. Dixons surely saw this coming and surely could have taken steps to avert it???

[/ QUOTE ]

Or they had the attitude of some Audi dealerships of "we don't give a Flying F**k how much you've spent with us, we will try and rip you off anyway"

Time to walk.

[jamief]

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JamieF to answer your question yes I am. I dont think my opinion would have been worth much salt if I didnt have first hand knowledge of what I was preaching.

At the risk of making this sound like Motor Traders Anonymous, all I can say is, of course I'd expect anyone to look around and get the best possible deal when buying a car/can of beans/watch/t-shirt etc. I know I do!

But thats missing the point. Often when I hear a story of how someone was unhappy with the service they received at a garage, usually thats just one side of the argument.

And Mook, I think I actually agree with you!

[/ QUOTE ]

Robin, I think the point I failed to make was really that until there is transparency between traders and customers, you will always get people who try and haggle "too much" or don't show respect. I think that stems from the fact that if we don't know how much money you are making on a deal (and with it, all the stereotypes about car salesman ripping people off), we will assume we are being ripped off, and that the price can be brought down a lot.

Maybe if the customer realised that you are only making £500 on car X or £900 on car Y then they would be a bit more amenable to paying what you wanted them to? Confusion breeds suspicion after all!

[Golfer]

[ QUOTE ]

I presume you are a trader robin? You don't seem to realise that people are entitled to take THEIR money where they want, and haggle as much as they like. At the end of the day, they are doing YOU a favour by buying from you, so you should treat them with a little bit of respect!

[/ QUOTE ]

Here Here

[robin09]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

JamieF to answer your question yes I am. I dont think my opinion would have been worth much salt if I didnt have first hand knowledge of what I was preaching.

At the risk of making this sound like Motor Traders Anonymous, all I can say is, of course I'd expect anyone to look around and get the best possible deal when buying a car/can of beans/watch/t-shirt etc. I know I do!

But thats missing the point. Often when I hear a story of how someone was unhappy with the service they received at a garage, usually thats just one side of the argument.

And Mook, I think I actually agree with you!

[/ QUOTE ]

Robin, I think the point I failed to make was really that until there is transparency between traders and customers, you will always get people who try and haggle "too much" or don't show respect. I think that stems from the fact that if we don't know how much money you are making on a deal (and with it, all the stereotypes about car salesman ripping people off), we will assume we are being ripped off, and that the price can be brought down a lot.

Maybe if the customer realised that you are only making £500 on car X or £900 on car Y then they would be a bit more amenable to paying what you wanted them to? Confusion breeds suspicion after all!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have shown my profit margin sheet to customers on ocassion, usually only to prove that what another garage has discounted is quite clearly ludicrous and unsustainable.

But on the other hand, why the public think they have a right to know how much profit a dealer makes is beyond me. There's no other industry where 'profit' is considered such a dirty word.

[stooH]

Actually I think there are a lot of industries where it's considered a dirty word. I work in Business Systems and the amount we get charged out at on the face of it looks astronomical. The problem is that people look at it and think good god I could do X, Y or Z for that! and not actually think it's going to add this much value to my business. Re-education and return on investment.

We put together a costing sheet to show customers who are always trying to screw us on price why it costs so much. Most people accept it and we can negotiate a bit off here and there for buying chunks of days.

Other people who drop their pants on day rates to please the customer eventually go out of business. With someone who maintains your systems that can really leave you up sh!t creek.

Ultimately a sensible customer like transparency.