DHA Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Power is only at its maximum high up in the rev range, torque peaks (especially in turbo'd cars both petrol and diesel) much lower in the rev range and often plateaus for a good portion of the rev range. More often than not people drive their cars in the middle of the rev range, so torque matters rather than simply bhp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos3 Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 It's a bit of fun numnut whiiiinger! I am grown up. Power is nice to have to use it correctly not to prove a point to other cars. Drive with respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] It's a bit of fun numnut whiiiinger! [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I am grown up. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Drive with respect. [/ QUOTE ] Post with respect........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Link. This sorts it all out. Mini Cooper: 120bhp, 118lb/ft torque, 1140kg, 0 - 62 in 9.1 secs Skoda Vrs: 130bhp, 228lb/ft torque, 1315kgs, 0 - 62 in 9.5 secs The weight difference sorts out the odd 10bhp near enough I should think, so they're more or less on a par. But the diesel (in real world terms) beats the petrol. And that's with Clarkson behind the wheel who'll be ragging the diesel up to 4500rpm (like it was a petrol engine) instead of using the torque down at the bottom of the rev range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos3 Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Dont see your point here mate, the real world is fact, not fiction and the fact is the mini still beats the skoda to 60 and a 100mph if it is driven for performance. Of course any one in a diesel can catch a 1.6 out if the 1.6 is in the wrong gear. It's not clever though because the mini driver knows he could match the Skoda vrs no problem if he wanted too. I saw a Porsce boxster S undertake a fiesta the other day on a 50MPH road with cameras. I thought what a prick, he prob thought it was clever. One day someone will take him out and he will get a nice speeding fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Blind are those that will not see..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] It's a bit of fun numnut whiiiinger! I am grown up. Power is nice to have to use it correctly not to prove a point to other cars. Drive with respect. [/ QUOTE ] For more information see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] The old 150hp petrol and diesel GTIs proved that the black stuff can be quicker. [/ QUOTE ] I remember a forum member trying to keep up with me in his S3 in my revo'd 150 PD Gti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I saw a Porsce boxster S undertake a fiesta the other day on a 50MPH road with cameras. I thought what a prick, he prob thought it was clever. One day someone will take him out and he will get a nice speeding fine too. [/ QUOTE ] Don't see your point here mate. Anyway, fact is that the example I showed you back there was obviously too technical for you to understand, so I'll try and explain it a bit. The Cooper is faster over 0 - 60 (62 actually), yet still gets beaten by the Vrs. The reason is that the torque advantage means that the 9.5 seconds time of the Vrs is achieved quicker than the 9.1 seconds of the Cooper simply because the acceleration is more forcefull. The extra torque lower down the rev range means that the Vrs is quicker into the acceleration than the Cooper, hence actually beating it on the road. That's why I never take much notice of manufacturers quoted figures. They drive them in a straight line, over flat ground up to 62mph, and how often do you do that on the roads? Soon as you get to an uphill gradient the torque beats bhp hands down. A Civic Type R will never beat a Golf TDI (even a 90bhp one) up a hill. Not till it has a torque transplant anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Please stop thinking diesels are quicker. If you drive a petrol and take it to 6000 rpm in every gear the petrols are quicker, FACT. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong, my Diesel works car will see off an .:R32 easily and the .:R has more BHP and everything and is Petrol too and even has a bigger rev range than the diesel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos3 Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Yeah, I got a new BMW 330d and an audi diesel 24hr lemans racer and they will see off my 1.6 clio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos3 Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A Civic Type R will never beat a Golf TDI (even a 90bhp one) up a hill. Not till it has a torque transplant anyway. [/ QUOTE ] This has got to be the best quote ever on TSN. I gonna post this in the civic type R forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Yeah, I got a new BMW 330d and an audi diesel 24hr lemans racer and they will see off my 1.6 clio. [/ QUOTE ] And your point is?? Infact both cars are very similar, the Deisel is infact a bigger more heavier car than the .:R32 with less grunt and it still sees it off, quite easily, Deisel rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos3 Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 All that matters is that I am better looking than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Oh dear So what is it??? 15? 16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Fecking gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russk Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 According to Whatcar.co.uk if you compare the Golf 1.4 TFSI (petrol) and the 2.0 TDI then both have the same top speed but the petrol is quicker to 60, although both have the same bhp (138). To say that a diesel with x bhp will always beat a petrol with the same bhp is completely wrong. Diesels inherently have more torque than petrols, but as soon as you turbocharge the petrol engine then things get more complicated. The 'up a hill' argument is flawed as well. If two cars are neck and neck on a flat bit of road, then how can one magically become quicker than the other just because they are driving up a gradient? Both have the same handicap in that they are both driving up the same hill.. They both have the same amount of work to do in a given period of time, just as they did on the flat surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Oh dear So what is it??? 15? 16? [/ QUOTE ] It is the summer holidays afterall........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 [ QUOTE ] All that matters is that I am better looking than you. [/ QUOTE ] I've got to agree with that. You're probably a better driver and better looking than everyone on here as well. I think we need to just give you massive respect - you obviously seem to know a shed-load more than all of us. You're the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Oh, and your car - I really like it. I never thought of making an S3 look like a 1.8T Oh, hang on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 [ QUOTE ] and better looking than everyone on here as well. [/ QUOTE ] Oi, im the best looking round here, surely the photos of me prove that [ QUOTE ] you obviously seem to know a shed-load more than all of us. [/ QUOTE ] but you no feck all anyway Mookster, your just as crap [ QUOTE ] You're the man [/ QUOTE ] Was that meant for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustynuts Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 [ QUOTE ] According to Whatcar.co.uk if you compare the Golf 1.4 TFSI (petrol) and the 2.0 TDI then both have the same top speed but the petrol is quicker to 60, although both have the same bhp (138). To say that a diesel with x bhp will always beat a petrol with the same bhp is completely wrong. Diesels inherently have more torque than petrols, but as soon as you turbocharge the petrol engine then things get more complicated. The 'up a hill' argument is flawed as well. If two cars are neck and neck on a flat bit of road, then how can one magically become quicker than the other just because they are driving up a gradient? Both have the same handicap in that they are both driving up the same hill.. They both have the same amount of work to do in a given period of time, just as they did on the flat surface. [/ QUOTE ] BHP makes you go fast, but torque is what takes you up hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_m Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Oh dear So what is it??? 15? 16? [/ QUOTE ] It is the summer holidays afterall........ [/ QUOTE ] Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 [ QUOTE ] but you no feck all anyway Mookster, your just as crap [/ QUOTE ] But at least I can spell [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You're the man [/ QUOTE ] Was that meant for me [/ QUOTE ] If it needs to be. But you're not nearly as much the man as Carlos3. He's really got it sussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos3 Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Thanks mook! Nice for someone to "big me up". Well it's all gentle banter, nothing serious. The pic you got of my car isn't very flattering though, doesn't make the most of the lowered look. I've seen some Golf's and A3's with 18's on and it doesnt look right unless the car is lowered. I have debadged it now and used genuine Audi parts so not to make the car look chav or boy racer. What was the point of the initial thread anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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